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It was traveling through the San Jouquin Valley yesterday in looking for subjects to test out my new camera and lens and stopped at a place that I had passed hundreds of times but never stopped and investigated.

 

Mossdale Crossing is between Stockton and Tracy along I-5 in California's Central Valley. The area has a rich transportation related history going back to the Transcontinental Railroad, Lincoln Highway, US50 and now I-5.

 

Brian Butko described the Lincoln's route in "Greeting from the Lincoln Highway (pg 268)" this way:

 

The Lincoln follows a frontage road to Louise Ave, where it jogs to the west side of I-5 (marked in orange) and goes south on Manthey Rd.(marked in white) At Mossdale, about where CA Route 120 branches south (marked in yellow), the Lincoln and I-5 cross the San Joaquin River Bridge. The Lincoln Highway got a new bridge in 1926-a concrete rainbow-shaped span still in use. The adjacent Mossdale Crossing commemorates the final link in the first transcontinental railroad. The San Joaquin River drawbridge connected San Francisco with the cross-country portion that ended in Sacramento.

 

The railroad drawbridge is not the original that was opened in 1869 as the date plate above the railbed says 1942.

 

Before the 1926 bridge was built how did autos get across? Did it replace a previous bridge that is no longer there?

 

Mossdale Crossing.

mossdale_crossing.jpg

 

Lincoln Highway roadbed and railroad trestle. The roadbed in the photo is circled in red on the image above.

SC109705.jpg

 

 

Lincoln Highway roadbed and railroad bridge.

40D00035.jpg

 

 

Union Pacific railroad bridge built in 1942.

SC109702.jpg

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Well Rick, you pose an interesting question! And you added several great photos! The B&W kind of grabs me. I like the bridge towers looming up like a metal beast coming over the horizon!

 

I'll take a quick look to see what the old books say.

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

 

Dave

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Rick,

 

The old bridge looks to be under the freeway, as per this 1915 topo (Thanks to the great topo collection on line at Chico State University!!) Or perhaps it is the current bridge with the access realigned! How do you read the topo?

 

ARMossdale.jpg

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

 

Dave

 

 

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Rick,

 

The old bridge looks to be under the freeway, as per this 1915 topo (Thanks to the great topo collection on line at Chico State University!!) Or perhaps it is the current bridge with the access realigned! How do you read the topo?

 

ARMossdale.jpg

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

 

Dave

I knew you couldn't resist a good on-line research project Keep.

 

The topo does one thing for me is to help clarify the road alignment north of the railroad trestle. I wasn't sure if the roadway came through what is now an orchard or followed the trestle like what is shown on the topo. I walked on the north side of the trestle and there is a dirt path following the base but I did not see any evidence of a concrete roadway.

 

There is also an underpass about where the Mossdale School would have been. The 1913 topo shows a road going underneath the railroad tracks which is about where Manthey Rd. passes underneath today. (just off the top edge of the map that I posted).

 

Current Manthey Road underpass, formerly the roadbed for US 48 and US 50. The Manthey School site would have been on the other side of the underpass to the right.

 

SC109707.jpg

 

 

As for the location of the bridge it is difficult to tell but it does look like the angle is the same as the present Manthey Rd. bridge. I can't really tell how tall the levee along the river is but I suspect it may not have been as high as it is today and if the bridge was in the same exact position it would have been a 25-30 foot climb to the bridge from the remaining concrete section. I don't think I see that represented on the topo.

 

My theory is that the bridge was built very close to the same position but much higher above the San Joaquin River than its predecessor. It would be interesting to find out when the levee was built and\or raised to it's present level. That area floods on an average of about every 8 years and would have been even more prone to flooding back then.

 

Roadhound

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I knew you couldn't resist a good on-line research project Keep.

 

Rick,

 

Well, your photos were so good, I couldn't resist visiting the location "virtually!" And I have to give Chico State credit for maintaining that topo collection!

 

It looks like I'm off to explore the "Monumental Highway" Saturday.

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

 

Dave

 

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I knew you couldn't resist a good on-line research project Keep.

 

The topo does one thing for me is to help clarify the road alignment north of the railroad trestle. I wasn't sure if the roadway came through what is now an orchard or followed the trestle like what is shown on the topo. I walked on the north side of the trestle and there is a dirt path following the base but I did not see any evidence of a concrete roadway.

 

There is also an underpass about where the Mossdale School would have been. The 1913 topo shows a road going underneath the railroad tracks which is about where Manthey Rd. passes underneath today. (just off the top edge of the map that I posted).

 

Current Manthey Road underpass, formerly the roadbed for US 48 and US 50. The Manthey School site would have been on the other side of the underpass to the right.

 

SC109707.jpg

 

 

As for the location of the bridge it is difficult to tell but it does look like the angle is the same as the present Manthey Rd. bridge. I can't really tell how tall the levee along the river is but I suspect it may not have been as high as it is today and if the bridge was in the same exact position it would have been a 25-30 foot climb to the bridge from the remaining concrete section. I don't think I see that represented on the topo.

 

My theory is that the bridge was built very close to the same position but much higher above the San Joaquin River than its predecessor. It would be interesting to find out when the levee was built and\or raised to it's present level. That area floods on an average of about every 8 years and would have been even more prone to flooding back then.

 

Roadhound

Roadhound, a newby here but an old history buff. I know I'm pulling up an old post but I know you're still around. I drive past Mossdale often and I live in Tracy. Do you happen to know the route of the Lincoln Highway from Mossdale through Tracy to the Altamont? From the Chico state topos that Keep turned us on to I'm guessing it was Grant Line road to Lincoln blvd, then 11th St. to Byron Hwy to Grant line or did it just take grant line all the way? Would greatly appreciate any input.

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Roadhound, a newby here but an old history buff. I know I'm pulling up an old post but I know you're still around. I drive past Mossdale often and I live in Tracy. Do you happen to know the route of the Lincoln Highway from Mossdale through Tracy to the Altamont? From the Chico state topos that Keep turned us on to I'm guessing it was Grant Line road to Lincoln blvd, then 11th St. to Byron Hwy to Grant line or did it just take grant line all the way? Would greatly appreciate any input.

 

Welcome Boy Named Sioux! Good to see another Californian get on board. I once called Tracy home for about two years or so back in the mid 80's, which was before any of the devolopment of the last 20 years occurred. We used to have to drive to Modesto or Pleasanton to do anything other than shop for groceries.

 

From what I know of that area, and I am a newbie myself when it comes to this stuff, the Lincoln made its way from Mossdale crossing to Banta. I am not sure on the exact route but I suspect a key part of it is under the I-5\I-205 interchange.

 

Going west from Banta it followed the Southern Pacific rail line along what is now W. Brichetto Rd until it reached 11th St and continued through Tracy. Once it got through town it then met up with Byron Rd for a short distance before turning west on West Grant Line Rd and towards the Altamont. If that turns out to be incorrect you can blame Brian Butko because I got the info out of his "Greetings from The Lincoln Highway." As a side note I hear that Brian's next Lincoln Book has been sent to the printer. Can't wait to get my hands on that.

 

I have a few other postings in the LH section of this board of sites around the Altamont, Dublin, and Castro Valley area that you might be interested in too.

 

Cheers,

 

Roadhound

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Big welcome, Sioux. Anybody that can immediately put both KtSotR & roadhound to work shows a lot of promise. :lol:

 

Because I'm currently playing with the LH Driving Maps CD and have some books at my side, I can add a couple of minor details. According to the CD and Gregory Franzwa's book, the LH rejoined 11th Street in Banta by using Banta Rd off of Brichetto Rd. Brian's not the least bit wrong but understandably left out that detail and I, for one, would have likely followed Brichetto to its end. There's a small discrepancy in Banta with the CD using 6th Street to get between G & F and Butko & Franzwa using 7th and, as all Lincoln Highway folks know, "In Greg We Trust". The CD I have is the 2008 version so this may have been "corrected" in 2009. (There's got to be a good story about a town with just a pair of through streets in each direction that calls those streets F & G and 6th & 7th:-) All seem to agree that Manthey Road was the LH between Mossdale and Banta. Apparently much of it is still drivable although it dead-ends where it got clobbered by the I-5/I-205 interchange.

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Suey,

 

Where else in the world do you get pros like Roadhound and DennyG answering questions? And eager to do it. I was going to pull out some turn by turns from the ‘ole archives, just for the heck of it, but between those two (and their excellent sources), you have it all.

 

BTW, I know I have 1914 strip maps of every main route in California, and earlier as well....back as far as 1906 if my memory serves. Of course the Chico State topos are great where they cover what you are looking for.... but sometimes I can help....so don't hesitate to ask if you have something specific. I guess I should add that most of the time the strip maps are not the best for finding the route through a small (in those days) town.

 

I feel bad that I couldn’t find an answer to the tunnel thing, but to be fair, it was a tough question. I hope to regain my reputation in the future!

 

Now I want to know what you know. You are interested in history and the two lane roads of yesterday. That is a golden combination which I and many others here share.

 

We are blessed when we drive an old road that we appreciate what has unfolded there. I tell my wife it is a little like watching a movie in my mind’s eye…..I can almost see the events and the people. That is an advantage of history (especially the local variety) my history teachers failed to mention.

 

Have you done any old roads lately?

 

Dave

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

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Big welcome, Sioux. Anybody that can immediately put both KtSotR & roadhound to work shows a lot of promise. :lol:

 

Because I'm currently playing with the LH Driving Maps CD and have some books at my side, I can add a couple of minor details. According to the CD and Gregory Franzwa's book, the LH rejoined 11th Street in Banta by using Banta Rd off of Brichetto Rd. Brian's not the least bit wrong but understandably left out that detail and I, for one, would have likely followed Brichetto to its end. There's a small discrepancy in Banta with the CD using 6th Street to get between G & F and Butko & Franzwa using 7th and, as all Lincoln Highway folks know, "In Greg We Trust". The CD I have is the 2008 version so this may have been "corrected" in 2009. (There's got to be a good story about a town with just a pair of through streets in each direction that calls those streets F & G and 6th & 7th:-) All seem to agree that Manthey Road was the LH between Mossdale and Banta. Apparently much of it is still drivable although it dead-ends where it got clobbered by the I-5/I-205 interchange.

 

Thanks for filling in that gap Denny.

 

As it turned out I drove through Banta earlier today on my way home from a training class and now that the route west out of Banta is resolved, I am now wondering about the route between Mossdale and Banta.

 

Comparing the 1915 topo map of the area to Google Earth it would appear that the original route followed Manthey Road, is buried underneath I-5 and then W 11th St before turning right on what is now Grant Line Road towards Banta. On the topo it is a straight line from the crossing until it reaches Grant Line.

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Thanks for filling in that gap Denny.

 

As it turned out I drove through Banta earlier today on my way home from a training class and now that the route west out of Banta is resolved, I am now wondering about the route between Mossdale and Banta.

 

Comparing the 1915 topo map of the area to Google Earth it would appear that the original route followed Manthey Road, is buried underneath I-5 and then W 11th St before turning right on what is now Grant Line Road towards Banta. On the topo it is a straight line from the crossing until it reaches Grant Line.

Once someone sparks your interest it is hard to resist if you're in the area, isn't it?

I plan on taking the Harley over to the Mossdale trestle and checking out the concrete roadway. I've been over there before but I wasn't as in tune to spotting old roads as I am now. Thanks for the help, and I'm going to pull up some of your old posts on the Altamont and such. I've been down Altamont Pass road quite a bit lately checking out clues of the past and the old Southern Pacific railroad bed that runs through there. I've been going over the Altamont (580) almost daily for eight years and never noticed the old SP tunnel that is just east of the Western Pacific bridge on the eastbound lanes. I believe this is the old 1938 alignment of U.S. 50.

If you're ever on Patterson Pass road check out the old stone walls if you haven't ever seen them. (37.69805555, -121.58916666)

 

Thanks again, Suey

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Big welcome, Sioux. Anybody that can immediately put both KtSotR & roadhound to work shows a lot of promise. :lol:

 

Because I'm currently playing with the LH Driving Maps CD and have some books at my side, I can add a couple of minor details. According to the CD and Gregory Franzwa's book, the LH rejoined 11th Street in Banta by using Banta Rd off of Brichetto Rd. Brian's not the least bit wrong but understandably left out that detail and I, for one, would have likely followed Brichetto to its end. There's a small discrepancy in Banta with the CD using 6th Street to get between G & F and Butko & Franzwa using 7th and, as all Lincoln Highway folks know, "In Greg We Trust". The CD I have is the 2008 version so this may have been "corrected" in 2009. (There's got to be a good story about a town with just a pair of through streets in each direction that calls those streets F & G and 6th & 7th:-) All seem to agree that Manthey Road was the LH between Mossdale and Banta. Apparently much of it is still drivable although it dead-ends where it got clobbered by the I-5/I-205 interchange.

Thanks for the info Denny. I also noticed on early maps that Brichetto Road doesn't go west of Banta Rd. I've been on those roads many times, not knowing the history, but new they were old and in poor condition. I don't know the story of the strange street naming in Banta but I have one of my own. A friend used to live in a little house behind the Banta Inn, whose owner owned both properties. The inn was closed on Sundays and in the summer we used to put our beer in the ice machine and play horseshoes all day out back of the inn. Ahh, good times....

 

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Suey,

 

Where else in the world do you get pros like Roadhound and DennyG answering questions? And eager to do it. I was going to pull out some turn by turns from the ‘ole archives, just for the heck of it, but between those two (and their excellent sources), you have it all.

 

BTW, I know I have 1914 strip maps of every main route in California, and earlier as well....back as far as 1906 if my memory serves. Of course the Chico State topos are great where they cover what you are looking for.... but sometimes I can help....so don't hesitate to ask if you have something specific. I guess I should add that most of the time the strip maps are not the best for finding the route through a small (in those days) town.

 

I feel bad that I couldn’t find an answer to the tunnel thing, but to be fair, it was a tough question. I hope to regain my reputation in the future!

 

Now I want to know what you know. You are interested in history and the two lane roads of yesterday. That is a golden combination which I and many others here share.

 

We are blessed when we drive an old road that we appreciate what has unfolded there. I tell my wife it is a little like watching a movie in my mind’s eye…..I can almost see the events and the people. That is an advantage of history (especially the local variety) my history teachers failed to mention.

 

Have you done any old roads lately?

 

Dave

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

I am so glad I found others like me out there. I was once married to a gal who did crossword puzzles on road trips, or read magazines, or sleep. She did everything but show interest in what was going by outside. (Except maybe Taco Bells) Did I mention I was once married? ;)

 

I understand about what you "see" on the old roads, I do the same. I used to teach history and my students would ask me what my favorite kind of history was. Easy question for me. "The history of where I've been, where I am, and where I'm going."

 

I have done a little bit of old roads.

 

Around Christmas I followed all the old routes from Mulholland Pass to the Grapevine in So Cal. This included San Fernando Road, Sepulveda blvd., The Old Road, the Ridge Route, Lebec Rd. and the Golden State Fwy. Basically old U.S. 99. I took a little side trip up the Sierra Hwy. to Beale's Cut (old Newhall Pass). All very interesting. The best was Beale's Cut and the Ridge Route south of Sandberg.

 

In January I did some of old 99 in Northern Ca. near Shasta, Weed, Dunsmuir.

 

Another favorite is Route 66 from Amboy to Barstow.

 

I'm getting ready for a trip from Tracy to Kansas City to Houston and back to Tracy in May. I plan on taking US 50 most of the way to KC, I haven't planned the rest. I generally don't 'plan' trips. They just sort of happen. As long as I have money, gas, and time there's no telling where I'll end up. I just know the barbecue places I want to hit on the way. B)

 

Thanks Dave,

 

I love the Chico Library maps!

 

~ Suey

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Suey,

 

Here is my grandfather’s description of his trip over Beale’s Cut in 1896. You might get a kick out of it.

 

http://americanroadmagazine.com/forum/inde...entry8072

 

I’m with you on not planning a trip too carefully. And like Beamerchef (Ara), I usually avoid the tourist destinations. The best places are the surprises, usually in places you didn’t plan to be!

 

I too enjoy the old roads between Redding and Medford. Lots of great places on the old route. Jervie Eastman (of Susanville) did a bunch of real photo post card shots in that area in the 40’s and 50’s. Many of his outtakes are on line at the UC Davis. Lots of opportunities for then and nows. Truly great stuff since you love history.

 

Dave

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

 

 

 

 

 

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Roadhound,

 

This is my first post so I hope the attachment works. This photo from the May 1925 edition of California Highways and Public Works should clear things up. The original crossing of the San Joaquin River was east of the 1926 crossing.It appears that it was probably close to where the I-5 bridges are now. It then went under the wooden trestle in your second photo. That short strip of concrete is probably the original roadbed. A very cool find. I live in Manteca and will be going to check it out tomorrow.

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post-13410-127981376442_thumb.jpgHere is the photo; I hope. It's my understanding that the Mossdale School was relocated to Tracy and is now the Tracy Grace Baptist Church. Edited by 1234r7x

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Mossdale May 1925.jpgHere is the photo; I hope. It's my understanding that the Mossdale School was relocated to Tracy and is now the Tracy Grace Baptist Church.

 

1234r7X,

 

A great find! And it is interesting that the old school still survives, somewhere else.

 

I'm not sure that Roadhound is still awake, but I am, and so let me welcome you to this group of old road enthusiasts. We look forward to your future posts.

 

You are in a good place to be interested in old roads. Have you done anything lately you want to share?

 

In my teens, back in the 1950's, I lived in the San Jose area, and my buddies and I would get up early and make a weekend run to Yosemite. The old road must have gone through Manteca, because I relate the first signs of sunrise with Manteca. Did the old road to Yosemite go through town?

 

Dave

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

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Mossdale May 1925.jpgHere is the photo; I hope. It's my understanding that the Mossdale School was relocated to Tracy and is now the Tracy Grace Baptist Church.

 

Steve C,

 

Thanks for posting that image, clears up a lot of things in my mind.

 

If you are correct about the school and the church then I think I know the building you are talking about. It was a few blocks away from the apartment that I had when I was living in Tracy back in the mid 80's. Next time I pass through I will have to check it out.

 

Roadhound

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Rick, et al

 

I stumbled across this air photo of the Mossdale Crossing in the May 1925 edition of California Highways. The topic is pretty cold now, but I thought the image might be ingteresting to some forum members.

 

Dave

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

 

http://www.historicalroadmaps.com/americanroad/Mossdale.jpg

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QUOTE (roadhound @ Mar 8 2009, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for filling in that gap Denny.

 

As it turned out I drove through Banta earlier today on my way home from a training class and now that the route west out of Banta is resolved, I am now wondering about the route between Mossdale and Banta.

 

Comparing the 1915 topo map of the area to Google Earth it would appear that the original route followed Manthey Road, is buried underneath I-5 and then W 11th St before turning right on what is now Grant Line Road towards Banta. On the topo it is a straight line from the crossing until it reaches Grant Line.

Once someone sparks your interest it is hard to resist if you're in the area, isn't it?

I plan on taking the Harley over to the Mossdale trestle and checking out the concrete roadway. I've been over there before but I wasn't as in tune to spotting old roads as I am now. Thanks for the help, and I'm going to pull up some of your old posts on the Altamont and such. I've been down Altamont Pass road quite a bit lately checking out clues of the past and the old Southern Pacific railroad bed that runs through there. I've been going over the Altamont (580) almost daily for eight years and never noticed the old SP tunnel that is just east of the Western Pacific bridge on the eastbound lanes. I believe this is the old 1938 alignment of U.S. 50.

If you're ever on Patterson Pass road check out the old stone walls if you haven't ever seen them. (37.69805555, -121.58916666)

 

Thanks again, Suey

 

 

I google mapped the long and lat and what I saw was not stone walls. Looked nothing as the stone walls alomg the roads in NY and New England.

 

It looks more as sudden drop offs in the erosion line making the appearance of the remains of stonewalls. Another reason is stone walls were made to mark off property lines so are placed near to the road.

 

Those "walls" appear to be set to far back from the road to be of any purpose. So that indicates they are not man made.

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Suey,

 

Here is my grandfathers description of his trip over Beales Cut in 1896. You might get a kick out of it.

 

http://americanroadmagazine.com/forum/inde...entry8072

 

Im with you on not planning a trip too carefully. And like Beamerchef (Ara), I usually avoid the tourist destinations. The best places are the surprises, usually in places you didnt plan to be!

 

I too enjoy the old roads between Redding and Medford. Lots of great places on the old route. Jervie Eastman (of Susanville) did a bunch of real photo post card shots in that area in the 40s and 50s. Many of his outtakes are on line at the UC Davis. Lots of opportunities for then and nows. Truly great stuff since you love history.

 

Dave

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

 

 

I remember that post. It was good to see the before and after photos of the cut, again.

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Hi all, been enjoying the discussion but wanted your opinions on some of the details. The attached photo is a Google map with the LHA routing (the purplish blue line) and the 1925 photo overlaid at 50% transparency. Please comment on my assumptions and conclusions:

1) The LHA map locates the Mossdale "Y" intersection at upper right (at A). Based on a photo I've seen of the "Y" I would make the radius of each turn smaller, but more importantly, the 1925 overlay (itself an aerial photo) shows the "Y" at B. Is the LHA (and the rest of us) incorrectly assuming the "Y" survives at A when it was in fact destroyed by the Interstate? I would be tempted to think that the scale was off but the river and two bridges and the curve of Manthey Road otherwise all line up perfectly.

2) The LHA shows the Mossdale underpass at C based on pavement visible on the aerial view about 1/4-inch to the south (as does Rick's map with a red circle), but the overlay makes it look like the underpass was about 1/4-inch (about 80 feet) to the east.

3) The LHA map needs to add the original bridge location at D.

 

4) The photo in this discussion of the Manthey Road underpass taken looking north at E says the school would have been through the opening and to the right, but it appears that whether the "Y" was at A or B, the underpass is the 1920s bypass of the "Y" and the school would NOT have been just on the far side.

 

5) I saw that a local history book reported the Mossdale School had been moved to the Grace Church but did not see anything at the church site on Google street or aerial views that looked like the tall skinny school in a vintage photo of the "Y." http://goo.gl/maps/pm4Ll

 

Brian

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post-60-0-60073500-1367868026_thumb.jpg

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Hi Brian,

 

I didn't want you to conclude that no one is trying to answer your questions. I have only looked at the the first one, and it is definitely interesting. I am however squinting at the photo overlay, so I am going to see if the USGS has some pre freeway aerial photos for that area. And I find that changing the color of an aerial image before doing a Google Earth overlay (and perhaps increasing the photo contrast or applying some HDR tonemapping) makes it easier to interpret.

 

 

None the less, it is impressive to even see a 1925 aerial! It sure looks like you are on to something! Great stuff!

 

Dave

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

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