Jump to content
American Road Magazine
Celebrating our two-lane highways of yesteryear…And the joys of driving them today!
DennyG

Pp-oo In Illinois & Indiana

Recommended Posts

This will be my third year at the Springfield Route 66 Festival. The first time (2003) I intended to hurry home on expressways but quickly gave that up as a bad choice and ended up traveling, unknowingly and purely by accident, a bit of the last PP-OO alignment. The second time (2006) I decided on a US-36 based route and stayed with that until around Rockville, IN. This year, with new found awareness of the PP-OO, I'm looking into following that a bit more closely. I'm interested in the final alignment partly because it goes right by my parents house at the west edge of Ohio. I am a little surprised and very much pleased to discover that I have enough vacation left that I feel I can splurge and use two days for the festival outing: Friday for the Chain of Rocks crossing and Monday to allow a reasonably relaxed two day drive to my parents' doorstep.

 

So here are some questions for specific forum members:

 

roadmaven & mobilene

Would you care to keep me company part of the way? (BTW, Mo, I've been wondering when you were going to jump up and say "I'll be there" regarding the Springfield festival.) I'll leave Springfield fairly early Sunday and a first guess at an overnight puts it somewhere around Crawfordsville give or take several miles and a few small towns. You could bid me farewell and scurry down I-74 whenever you felt it appropriate.

 

KtSotR

Can you contribute scans for that section of the PP-OO similar to what you did for the eastern Ohio stretch? Maybe I can spot some of the advertised businesses this time. And, since I've seen some wild talk elsewhere on this forum, I'll even ask you the same thing I asked Ro & Mo. Fly into St Louis, ride across the CoR with me, and fly home from Springfield, Indianapolis, or Dayton?

 

Like most of my plans, these could change or evaporate at any moment, but I don't think they're at severe risk. If anyone else might want to join in on a bit of the PP-OO segment (RoadDog? Bliss? Kip?) just raise your hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, well, the weekend of the 29th is when I was going to be moving into my new house. That has been placed on hold, probably by two weeks, but then the problem becomes that any dollar I didn't put into buying the house needs to go into buying things for the house. I'll just say that this is my first post-divorce permanent residence and leave deriving the rest of the equation as an exercise for the reader. With any luck there'll be another 66fest next year and I'll be able to go.

 

So the Springfield to Crawfordsville co-cruise is probably out. But I might welcome a day off on Monday, if I can get it, and we could cruise across the PP-OO from C-ville east. Lemme know if that'd work for you, or whether you'll just be focusing on getting the heck home that day.

 

Looks like IL 6/IN 32/OH 571 could be the PP-OO -- it goes from Danville, IL, through Crawfordsville, Lebanon, Anderson, and Muncie, all towns on the PP-OO in 1927.

 

jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Denny,

 

I can certainly scan whatever you need. And be very happy to do it. That is what my stuff is good for, and I enjoy the delving.

 

This is for the weekend that includes the 29th, right? I ask because we have guests arriving in 30 minutes who won’t leave until Tuesday. Is mid next week OK for the scans? If you need them sooner I can get them.

 

I really appreciate the offer to connect with you, and I am getting closer to a Midwest adventure. At the moment Sheila and I are tossing around our thoughts for travels this Fall, so I better pass for now.

 

Gotta run so I can guide the RV’s into our driveway.

 

Keep the Show on the Road

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But I might welcome a day off on Monday, if I can get it, and we could cruise across the PP-OO from C-ville east. Lemme know if that'd work for you, or whether you'll just be focusing on getting the heck home that day.
Hard to say. Of the two homeward bound days, Monday's the one most likely to get crunched because I spent too much time somewhere Sunday. It seems that, no matter whether the trip is two days or two weeks, I start off feeling like I have loads of time and end up rushing to get home, catch a plane, or something similar. I'm afraid to commit to something but we can see how things go.

This is for the weekend that includes the 29th, right?
Right. Next week or even later is fine. I have the basic route down so it's a matter of sorting some detail or looking for a building

At the moment Sheila and I are tossing around our thoughts for travels this Fall, so I better pass for now.
Alrighty. If you change your mind, write your name on a sheet and hang it from the CoR where I can see it.

Gotta run so I can guide the RV’s into our driveway.
You wouldn't have to worry about that if you didn't stay home so much. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So here are some questions for specific forum members:

 

Like most of my plans, these could change or evaporate at any moment, but I don't think they're at severe risk. If anyone else might want to join in on a bit of the PP-OO segment (RoadDog? Bliss? Kip?) just raise your hand.

 

 

Sounds like fun, Denny, but I'll feel fortunate if 'Lil Red just takes us to Springfield and back to STL without any big problems. She's a high-mile day tripper and we try not to push our luck too far.

 

See ya at the COR, though, for the cruise to Springfield and the Friday night street 66 street cruise....Bliss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So here are some questions for specific forum members:

 

roadmaven & mobilene

Would you care to keep me company part of the way? (BTW, Mo, I've been wondering when you were going to jump up and say "I'll be there" regarding the Springfield festival.) I'll leave Springfield fairly early Sunday and a first guess at an overnight puts it somewhere around Crawfordsville give or take several miles and a few small towns. You could bid me farewell and scurry down I-74 whenever you felt it appropriate.

 

There's a very good possiblity I can shadow you on the way home Sunday. A question I have for you or mobilene is if either of you have have it mapped yet? I've been looking at it from my 1925 auto trails map, but haven't actually transferred any of the info to a usable map with current county/state/US routes on it.

 

I'll probably wait until the last possible minute before I register for the Springfield show. Hate to eat a $40 entry fee if I can help it! I'm still wavering on when & how to get to Springfield. If I got out of the house at 6am Friday and took the I to the CoR, I could probably get there right when the first car is rolling across.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There's a very good possiblity I can shadow you on the way home Sunday. A question I have for you or mobilene is if either of you have have it mapped yet? I've been looking at it from my 1925 auto trails map, but haven't actually transferred any of the info to a usable map with current county/state/US routes on it.

 

If you mean the final alignment of the PP-OO in IL and IN, I think it's a safe bet that it's simply IL 6/IN 32. By the time of the PP-OO's last routing, I'm betting these two roads were pretty well in place. I traced the IN portion via Google Maps and saw very little in the way of former alignments.

 

Is that what you're asking for?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you mean the final alignment of the PP-OO in IL and IN, I think it's a safe bet that it's simply IL 6/IN 32. By the time of the PP-OO's last routing, I'm betting these two roads were pretty well in place. I traced the IN portion via Google Maps and saw very little in the way of former alignments.

 

Is that what you're asking for?

 

That's it! So there's no evidence of it using any obscure county roads?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not that I can tell. In Indiana, at least, 32 goes directly through all the towns on the PP-OO's final route. There is little evidence of roads that diverge and converge (as on the earlier US 36-based PP-OO alignment), and I don't detect any other road that hits all those towns.

 

I wonder if my 1924 ABB will shed some light (he says, puffing out his chest over his new acquisition). I'll try to find time to look this evening.

 

jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not that I can tell. In Indiana, at least, 32 goes directly through all the towns on the PP-OO's final route. There is little evidence of roads that diverge and converge (as on the earlier US 36-based PP-OO alignment), and I don't detect any other road that hits all those towns.

 

I wonder if my 1924 ABB will shed some light (he says, puffing out his chest over his new acquisition). I'll try to find time to look this evening.

 

jim

 

We just had this conversation over the weekend about getting an ABB. I guess my hunt is now on. It's time to be a have and not a have not. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do have a general (missing plenty of in town details) plot at home. As I recall, it is IN-32 east of Crawsfordsville and US-136 west of there. West of Danville, I believe it tracks US-150 for awhile but does get on some smaller (obscure?) roads between Urbana and Decatur. West of Decatur I'm thinking that the road deLorme now calls "Old Route 36" is pretty much it.

 

mobilene, I'm not at all familiar with IL-6 but Wikipedia claims it's a short road between Mossville & Peoria. Is it more than that or did you mean something else?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that I'm looking at it again, I wonder what sources I was looking at last time that made me so sure of myself. Oh, and that IL 6 is a case of me getting hung up on Windows Live Local's labels. That's some county road.

 

I believe you are right, Denny, about the route, down to following some smaller roads between Decatur and Champaign. These scans from my 1924 ABB lay out the route and I can track it on Google Maps pretty well. There's some weirdness just west of Decatur and around White Heath where I-72 may have obliterated some of the old route. It looks like a few blocks of a street aren't there anymore in Urbana. I can't at all figure out how the ABB is telling me to get from Oakwood to Danville. It also puts you on the Dixie Bee Highway from Covington to Veedersburg.

 

The ABB doesn't call this out as the PP-OO, but it looks good to me.

 

spring-crawf-1.jpg

spring-crawf-2.jpg

spring-crawf-3.jpg

 

Good grief, this stuff is fascinating. I've spent 90 minutes figuring this out, and I didn't even realize the time passed.

Edited by mobilene

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

mobilene, I was debating whether to post an SA2008 routing file here when you posted the ABB pages. That pushed me to the "do it" side of the debate only to discover that .DMT (DeLorme Magic Transfer?) files aren't permitted. I was questioning the wisdom of posting something that is obviously preliminary as well as not being usable by everyone so maybe that's the best. As soon as I finish this (which might not be until the Bengals-Raven game ends) I'll send a copy to roadmaven and I'd be happy to send it to anyone else who is interested. Then I'll try tracing the ABB directions.

 

I suspect that some thing's missing between Illiopolis and Niantic which may be the mentioned "weirdness just west of Decatur" and had sort of conceded that White Heath section to I-72.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not that I can tell. In Indiana, at least, 32 goes directly through all the towns on the PP-OO's final route. There is little evidence of roads that diverge and converge (as on the earlier US 36-based PP-OO alignment), and I don't detect any other road that hits all those towns.

 

I wonder if my 1924 ABB will shed some light (he says, puffing out his chest over his new acquisition). I'll try to find time to look this evening.

 

jim

 

Jim,

Out of curiosity, what do you show the route taking west out of Crawfordsville? My '25 map shows it heading out on a route that wouldn't be IN-32 today. It does some stairstepping southwest and goes through the town of Alamo, which is accessible today via county roads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm about to hang it up for the night, but real fast -- the westbound route is the exact opposite of the eastbound. Cville to Waynetown to Hillsboro to Veedersburg (via Dixie Bee Road) to Covington.

 

Bear in mind that my 1924 ABB isn't calling this route the PP-OO -- in 1924, the PP-OO still took the route through Rockville, Montezuma, and Chrisman. I'm just making an educated conclusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good grief, this stuff is fascinating. I've spent 90 minutes figuring this out, and I didn't even realize the time passed.

 

No kidding! I realize now why our routes aren't jiving....there was a major routing change somewhere along the way. Mine heads SW out of Crawfordsville and ends up in Rockville, where it picks up current US 36 west to Chrisman, IL. More digging......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
....there was a major routing change somewhere along the way.
:lol: The PP-OO was nothing if not dynamic. I'm looking at what I think was the final route from about 1925 because it's the only coast-to-coast highway that ever went through Darke County Ohio.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK boys, learn me this: When was the PPOO conceived? I just got an e-mail from master road sleuth Thomas Repp, and according to his 1920 map, the PPOO doesn't exist. Nothing coming out of C-ville in any direction called the PPOO. With that in mind, I give you these. These are the two sections of Indiana from my 1925 Rand McNally Auto Trails Map. Route #16 in the black box is the PPOO. I've got the route, according to this map, about 80% routed from Crawfordsville to Rockville, but I'll finish in the coming days. Dare I post its routing and cloud this thing even more? B) I'm pretty sure a road trip shall be had this weekend if anyone's up for some ghost road hunting.

 

54.jpg 55.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OK boys, learn me this: When was the PPOO conceived?
According to Meeks, the "birth" was March 17, 1914. Presumably, conception was some time earlier. In 1920, it was heading due west out of Indianapolis to Rockville. Apparently it was around 1925 that it moved to Crawfordsville, etc., for the short remainder of its life. I think that, for the PP-OO, you not only need the year of a map but the month and day, too. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks to me like the PP-OO was in the process of being rerouted to its final routing in 1924-1925 then. My 1924 ABB couldn't be clearer that the PP-OO went through Indy, Danville, Bainbridge, and Rockville, more or less along what is now US 36. But given that it was probably published in like late 1923, who knows. People trying to follow the PP-OO using maps and guides had to be feeling very confused in those days. Which direction does the road take today?

 

Interesting that, per your map, the PP-OO goes through Marshall, IN. I've been through there out of curiosity. There's a big ... not arch, what the heck are they called anyway? Pillars with a crossbar over the road announcing the town. But there's so little town there you wonder why they bothered announcing it. Maybe they were hopeful it would grow to be more.

 

jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It also puts you on the Dixie Bee Highway from Covington to Veedersburg.
I realize this is veering off topic but I'm wondering if the ABB you're referencing actually shows the Dixie Bee Line Highway going through Covington and Veedersburg. I know very little about the DBL other than it was principally north-south and connected, among others, Danville, IL, and Terre Haute, IN. If I read Pat's Auto Trails Map correctly (and those little bitty numbers can look pretty fuzzy at times), it appears to head SE from Danville then due south (probably on what is now IN-63) before reaching Perrysville. Apparently the PP-OO did follow a road between Covington and Veedersburg that is now called W Dixie Bee Road but is there any evidence that this was once part of the DBL Highway?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My ABB doesn't say anything about the Dixie Bee Line through there.

 

I was under the impression the Dixie Bee Highway followed US 41. Now this is anecdotal information and not based on maps or guides. So I thought it entirely plausible that this highway followed this road as it headed off toward Danville.

 

It does look like that this road may have been part of the DH, according to http://www.us-highways.com/dixiehwyw.htm.

 

jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just spoke with the reference librarian at the Indiana Historical Society and they have a wide collection of maps available for reproduction. I work not too far from there and if my dear Road Maven would like to have a copy of old Indiana maps, this could be arranged.

 

The collection is available online to search...here is a link to a quick search for Indiana Road Map:

 

Indiana Road Maps at the Indiana Historical Society

 

There are 109 Indiana road maps of varying years, many of which may be in the range of years you're interested in. Also, they have county maps as well, which may have more details. All maps are available for reproduction (cost varies, depending upon how large the copy is and method of copy; ie., paper copy, large format scan, or digital photo of the map).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just spoke with the reference librarian at the Indiana Historical Society and they have a wide collection of maps available for reproduction. I work not too far from there and if my dear Road Maven would like to have a copy of old Indiana maps, this could be arranged.

 

The collection is available online to search...here is a link to a quick search for Indiana Road Map:

 

Indiana Road Maps at the Indiana Historical Society

 

There are 109 Indiana road maps of varying years, many of which may be in the range of years you're interested in. Also, they have county maps as well, which may have more details. All maps are available for reproduction (cost varies, depending upon how large the copy is and method of copy; ie., paper copy, large format scan, or digital photo of the map).

Good input. I don't have any particular Indiana questions just yet. I did do a quick search for a Fountain County (Covington-Veedersburg) map without success but there are certainly some state wide maps there for the "right" period.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My ABB doesn't say anything about the Dixie Bee Line through there.

 

I was under the impression the Dixie Bee Highway followed US 41. Now this is anecdotal information and not based on maps or guides. So I thought it entirely plausible that this highway followed this road as it headed off toward Danville.

 

It does look like that this road may have been part of the DH, according to http://www.us-highways.com/dixiehwyw.htm.

 

jim

It would have been a bit of a surprise but I figured it was possible that some alignment of the Dixie Bee Line went through there at some point.

 

I think US-41 does largely follow the DBL, particulatly in TN and maybe KY, but it's like US-30 following the Lincoln and US-40 following the National Road. In other words, you can't count on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×