mobilene Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Someone I follow on Flickr has made a number of visits to sites on old US 50 in eastern Illinois and has uploaded photos of some very cool bridges. US 50 was significantly rerouted in portions of eastern Illinois, and in other portions new 50 was built right nex to old 50, which is now used as a frontage road. Unlike along the National Road, Illinois seems to have left a whole bunch of old bridges standing on the old road. Here is one example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/seinfeld99/3316151991/ Here's another: http://www.flickr.com/photos/seinfeld99/3316950938/ These bridges are taunting me, daring me to drive out there to see them, and by George I think sometime this spring I'm gonna take that dare. If you dig old bridges, I recommend you check out this dude's Flickr pages. He seems to have made it his mission to document every old bridge (rail and road) in eastern Illinois and western Indiana. He has found some amazing stuff. http://www.flickr.com/photos/seinfeld99/ Peace, jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennyG Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 I remember those US-50 bridges although it's been a few years since I was there. At least two and I think three abandoned bridges with decorative brick approaches. The current US-50 parallels the abandoned stretches fairly close and short bits of the older routing are "drivable". I recall that Bliss once commented on the bridges, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownwho63 Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 I remember those US-50 bridges although it's been a few years since I was there. At least two and I think three abandoned bridges with decorative brick approaches. The current US-50 parallels the abandoned stretches fairly close and short bits of the older routing are "drivable". I recall that Bliss once commented on the bridges, too. I recall seeing three of them west of Vincennes, IN and, yes, they're very cool old truss bridges with beautiful brick wall approaches. Have a couple of pics in another album but don't know how to copy them to this page. Definitely worth seeing and better yet, walking across. Great photo op!....Bliss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Burr - hester_nec Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 I noticed in one of the photo's mention that it cost $264,000 to build way back when and would cost $20 million today - and it probably wouldn't stand for near 100 years, like the old one. Hudsonly, Alex Burr Memphis, TN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep the Show on the Road! Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Jim, (I sent Jim some 1917 TIB strip maps of the route and I did an overlay on Google Earth. And several of the historical topos for the route are available…..I think at the University of Illinois…..but they are easy to find in any case.) Jim, I think you have another very interesting project! I did a little street level Google “drive” along a bit of the old road and it looks charming. I got a kick out of the fact that coming into Lebanon (for example) the road turned to brick in town. And the town looked quite interesting itself. I remain envious of your proximity to such great roads. I’m not knocking NW scenery, but we lack the “un self conscious” old villages along historic narrow two lane roads. I’m thinking from my very casual look at the route that it probably encapsulates the history of auto roads. It didn’t seem to exist as a route in 1909 (one of the topo dates) and the railroad was the only long distance connector. By 1913 the Midwest ABB describes an auto route, and by 1917 it is well enough established for TIB to justify mapping it. Later you have US 50 old, and newer. Interesting! Keep us updated! Dave Keep the Show on the Road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobilene Posted March 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I'm going to have to figure out how to do Google Earth overlays. I spent some time the other day playing with this route. I'm really mostly interested in 50's original route, which merges with the current route somewhere in the middle of Illinois. I really want to see those bridges! Live Search Maps has better resolution maps of Illinois than Google Maps does, to my surprise. Anyway, I'll let you know when I get around to scheduling this trip. I'm still working on the Washington, DC trip with my kids, to happen in a couple weeks. I wrote Christopher Busta-Peck for recommendations about driving the National Road home and he gave me a lot of excellent tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobilene Posted March 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Oh, ps. There's a road that exits Carlyle, IL, westbound labeled "Old State Road." It dead-ends at new US 50 and picks up again on the other side, then ends at some farm -- but you can see how it used to go through that farmland, across new US 50 again, and then merge into the path of old US 50. Very cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep the Show on the Road! Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Jim, I am remiss in not identifying your proposed route as the Midland Trail. I know you were planning to focus on the post 1926-27 US50 days, but the detailed descriptions of the road in the 1916 Midland Trail Tour Guide (repro copy) are worth your time to read. I'll edit this post and add them as soon as I can. Some of this stuff looks great! Lucky You!! Dave Keep the Show on the Road These are not from an original guide, but from the often available (used) reprint of the 1916 Guide done in 1969 by the Rio Grande Press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep the Show on the Road! Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Jim, The suspension bridge at Carlyle is a beauty…but “suffers” from restoration. Built in 1859, it was in use until about 1929. It is noted in the Midland Trail descriptions above as the second suspension bridge built in America, but is not so recognized in more recent descriptions. It was restored in 1950, but I rather prefer its condition in the 3 photos in the Historic American Buildings Survey (Library of Congress site) which show it in some disepair in the 1930’s. Of course, had it not been restored, it would probably have floated down river years ago….so I shouldn’t be a purist! Jim, I repeat, you lucky guy! From the Library of Congress American Memory site.....always worth a visit!!!! Dave Keep the Show on the Road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobilene Posted March 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Wowowowow! Dave, you rock! I was wondering how deep into Illinois to go and now I absolutely must go as far as Carlyle. I could tell from aerial maps that the road had at one time jogged a block north going into Carlyle but I couldn't make out anything about the bridge there. I wonder if it was ever part of US 50. I am more than happy to consider this route's pre-1926 alignments and features. That the stage followed this corridor is fascinating to me, and I'm curious to know the stage's actual route. I'll bet it followed "the Old State Road." jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep the Show on the Road! Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Wowowowow! Dave, you rock! I was wondering how deep into Illinois to go and now I absolutely must go as far as Carlyle. I could tell from aerial maps that the road had at one time jogged a block north going into Carlyle but I couldn't make out anything about the bridge there. I wonder if it was ever part of US 50. I am more than happy to consider this route's pre-1926 alignments and features. That the stage followed this corridor is fascinating to me, and I'm curious to know the stage's actual route. I'll bet it followed "the Old State Road." jim Jim, You have a definite talent for picking interesting roads to explore! And I appreciate the opportunity to look over your shoulder, so to speak. I was as amazed as you to discover that the old suspension bridge still existed. “Who’d a known?” I wondered when I read the citation in the Midland guide if perhaps the road segments to it would still show, or if perhaps there would be the suspension supports still standing. When I looked on Google and the shadow of the bridge was evident in the river, I couldn’t believe it. Your comment about the old stage road led me to look further. I “assumed” at first that the 1917 TIB maps probably followed the stage road fairly well, and they might generally, but not apparently in the area west of Carlyle (the only place I have looked) I note on a 1910 USGS map that includes Carlyle that the through road is labeled the “Vincennes and St Louis Road” sort of a dead giveaway that it must have been the stage road. It goes northwest from Carlyle to Frogtown, then west. The 1917 road appears to follow the stage road northwest from Carlyle for a short distance and then follows the new US50 westward. Old 50 appears to go straight west from Carlyle. This short VIDEO shows the routes of the stage road and old US50. It looks to me like you have three roads to explore 1. The Vincennes to St Louis Road shown on 1910 maps and which was probably the Stage Road 2. The early 20th century road which I sent you on the 1917 maps 3. The Old US 50 road marked on modern maps. This is just a very "quick and dirty" look, but it is interesting. I'll look forward to your further analysis. Dave Keep the Show on the Road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobilene Posted March 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Outstanding! The road you pointed out in your video, that goes northwestish out of Carlyle, is labeled "Old State Road" on Live Search Maps. There are addresses in Carlyle of "such-n-such-number Old State Road." Maybe this road was an early Illinois-funded route, like the MR in Indiana, which leads to its "Old State Road" name. But it occurred to me that it's not far off aurally to say "Old Stage Road," too. Now check out this fabulousness. I found a 1907 USGS topo from Breese westward that shows the Old State Road going through west of Breese. What later became US 50 passes through Aviston and dead ends before it reaches the Old State Road: And today's Live Search Maps image shows US 50 going through and curving south a bit at the point where it would have merged with the Old State Road, if it still existed -- but check out that trace of the road's original alignment just north of that curve: coooooool! Wonder if I can get permission to go look at the old road that's left behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobilene Posted March 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Ooh, and in 1937, the two roads merged at that point. The plot thickens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep the Show on the Road! Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 I didn’t see that the stage road was called State Road on Google until you pointed it out….so that was the State Road you were referring to. Is this the SEGMENT you want to access? I also note what may have been a stage era DUGWAY and ONE TOO MANY BRIDGES on new US50! Dave Keep the Show on the Road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobilene Posted March 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Yep, Dave, that's the segment I'm interested in. I've never heard of a dugway before -- new concept to me. Thanks for introducing me to it. Your explanation of what you see at that spot sure sounds plausible. Yes, I noticed the other New US 50 bridge, too. Every bridge on new 50 between Carlyle and just east of Lebanon is twinned, the south bridge apparently unused. With so much of Old 50 paralleling New 50 east of that spot, I am ready to conclude that Illinois was thinking toward a divided US 50, but much like they did with US 40 to the north, something caused them to abandon the idea. I-64 is the nearest Interstate I could find, far to the south, and it doesn't follow the US 50 corridor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep the Show on the Road! Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Yep, Dave, that's the segment I'm interested in. I've never heard of a dugway before -- new concept to me. Thanks for introducing me to it. Your explanation of what you see at that spot sure sounds plausible. Yes, I noticed the other New US 50 bridge, too. Every bridge on new 50 between Carlyle and just east of Lebanon is twinned, the south bridge apparently unused. With so much of Old 50 paralleling New 50 east of that spot, I am ready to conclude that Illinois was thinking toward a divided US 50, but much like they did with US 40 to the north, something caused them to abandon the idea. I-64 is the nearest Interstate I could find, far to the south, and it doesn't follow the US 50 corridor. Jim, I think a dugway is any road cut below the normal surface of the surrounding land. They were common at river and stream crossings for obvious reasons. I suppose “cut in the creek bank” would be another descriptor. It looks like you have some fun locations to explore! As a related aside, I have wondered whether it might be worthwhile for you to contact a local newspaper along that route, and offer to do a piece on the route. The fact that it was on the Midland Trail, was an old stage route, was part of the Lincoln Trail, etc. has enough hooks to be of interest. It might even be of interest to an Illinois based travel magazine. Toss in the suspension bridge and you have a winner! Just a thought. Dave Keep the Show on the Road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobilene Posted March 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 I know that a couple guys who work for Illinois DOT lurk on misc.transport.road, so I asked about the US 50 alignments there. I learned from the replies I got there that the stage route, the one signed Old State Road, was once Illinois 12, but that the segment between Aviston and Carlyle was never US 50. IL 12 was probably realigned before the US system was instituted. There was some inconclusive discussion about whether US 50 was supplanted by I-64. One reply included a link to a video of the "new" segment of US 50 that has all the phantom bridges (though you can't see them in the movie). It's an ultra-high-speed jaunt down that segment. http://www.millenniumhwy.net/videos/US_50_super_2_ill.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownwho63 Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Someone I follow on Flickr has made a number of visits to sites on old US 50 in eastern Illinois and has uploaded photos of some very cool bridges. US 50 was significantly rerouted in portions of eastern Illinois, and in other portions new 50 was built right nex to old 50, which is now used as a frontage road. Unlike along the National Road, Illinois seems to have left a whole bunch of old bridges standing on the old road. Here is one example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/seinfeld99/3316151991/ Here's another: http://www.flickr.com/photos/seinfeld99/3316950938/ These bridges are taunting me, daring me to drive out there to see them, and by George I think sometime this spring I'm gonna take that dare. If you dig old bridges, I recommend you check out this dude's Flickr pages. He seems to have made it his mission to document every old bridge (rail and road) in eastern Illinois and western Indiana. He has found some amazing stuff. Here's my contribution to this bridge thread. Three very cool identical bridges.......Bliss http://americanroadmagazine.com/forum/inde...=si&img=475 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadmaven Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 You know, I knew I had seen this bridge before, but couldn't remember when. Now I recall...we changed up things on a Route 66 trip to Missouri in '06 and took US 50 from Vincennes, IN and encountered these bridges. Here's our contribution: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep the Show on the Road! Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 You know, I knew I had seen this bridge before, but couldn't remember when. Now I recall...we changed up things on a Route 66 trip to Missouri in '06 and took US 50 from Vincennes, IN and encountered these bridges. Here's our contribution: Pat, Good one! Do you recall, was the roadbed wood on ythe bridge, or was that discolored concrete? Don't worry if you don't recall.....we'll get the answer from Jim in due time! Dave Keep the Show on the Road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadmaven Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Pat, Good one! Do you recall, was the roadbed wood on ythe bridge, or was that discolored concrete? Don't worry if you don't recall.....we'll get the answer from Jim in due time! Dave Keep the Show on the Road! I'm certain it was concrete. The discoloration actually might've been rust from the bridge itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobilene Posted April 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 A fellow I follow on Flickr whose old-bridge photographs turned me on to US 50 in the first place has uploaded recent photos of the suspension bridge at Carlyle. They're not embeddable, but here are a few links. http://www.flickr.com/photos/seinfeld99/34...in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/seinfeld99/34...in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/seinfeld99/34...in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/seinfeld99/34...in/photostream/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobilene Posted May 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 If the weather holds and my schedule doesn't turn upside-down, I'm grabbing a friend and making the US 50 in IL drive on Memorial Day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobilene Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Some photos from the trip. Just inside Illinois, mere feet from the Wabash River, this is old US 50. A bridge used to cross from Main St. in Vincennes in IN; in 1933, a new bridge was completed (and is still there) one block south. The approach on the Indiana side looks to be brick, too, per Google Maps. Old gas station in Noble, IL. Ice-cream parlor today (closed that day, darnit). Concrete old US 50, right alongside current asphalt US 50 (on the left, but you can't see it). Could Illinois have thought they might build a 4-lane divided US 50? Hmmmmm???? Three abandoned bridges in a row, boom boom boom. First: Abandoned bridge over Big Muddy River. Second: Abandoned bridge over Little Muddy River. Third: Abandoned bridge over Little Wabash River. 1859 General Dean Suspension Bridge in Carlyle, IL. US 50 is one block south, but this bridge was never on US 50. It was, however, on the Goshen Road, an early east-west road across southern IL. And then, on current US 50 just west of Carlyle, we saw one of the unused bridges. There are three or four of these on this alignment, built in about 1973 and then left to sit. Time was short and the weather wasn't always cooperative, so we didn't get to see everything we wanted to. This road absolutely warrants a return trip someday. There were several old motels along the route, some abandoned and some still in business with lovely neon signs still at the roadside. And there's more of the old stagecoach route to see, esp. where new US 50 severs it, and where a stretch of it sits in some farmer's field. jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mga707 Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 That 1859 bridge in Carlyle is one pretty bridge! Assume it is still open for pedestrian use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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