Keep the Show on the Road!
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Posts posted by Keep the Show on the Road!
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PHOENIX ARIZONA VALLEY OF THE SUN
Weather you are traveling East to West or heading into the sunrise there is a string of PETE'S FISH AND CHIPS across the Valley . This 50+year old chain is one of the last real drive inns in the west.
Out side table dining. They serve their own frozen fish square. Remember your in the middle of Arizona.
The food is good and the price is verry good. ''MONSTER BERGURS RULE''
Konaboy,
Sounds good! Pete's it is... next time I'm in the Phoenix area!
Any other suggestions?
Been on any good roads lately? We were in Gila Bend this winter on the Old Spanish Trail (US 80).
OBTY, Welcome!!
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Cityboy1968,
Great to see your post! You are way too modest both about your photography and your area’s beauty and charm. I guess we all think somewhere else is prettier, because I think Mississippi is beautiful. And the photo is great.
The bridge is fascinating, and maybe Mississippi is into something. At least they don’t tear down everything!
Now that we have a photo of the bridge, how about sharing more photos and stories about the roads and roadside attractions in the area.
I remember an earlier exchange we had about southeastern Mississippi roads. I looked the area over on Google earth. I want to see more!! Why not start a new thread just about Mississippi roads, or maybe the Jeff Davis or Jefferson Davis in the U.S Highways and Auto Trails. (Note who is now the moderator there.......ah the fame!
)Let’s Keep the Show on the Road!!!
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I couldn't decide whether this Wikipedia entry for National Old Trails Highway belonged in the National Old Trails Road / Santa Fe Trail / U.S. 66 or National Road / U.S. 40 forum so I decided to post it here and let the moderator sort it out.
There's more at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Old_Trails_Road
So this is hazing the new kid on the block, huh. Kind of an initiation to see if he knows his stuff.
This looks like this piece is about the National Old Trails Road, not the National Road or the National Pike. Seems to me like you have your work cut out!
BTY in my prior life I learned never to edit the student newspaper. If you do, then you become responsible for the content. That applies here. (But I do like that part about the hitherto unknown National Auto Trail system. I knew it! Those guys did have a secret society! No doubt a slip of the caps key.)
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Absolutely whatever photo's you have send them to me. If it is alright to post this one on my yahoo group I will, and give you credit for it.
cruisers992000,
I will see if I can take a swing along 20 in Oregon in the next month. I want to stop in Burns anyway because I have an old horse collar with Pete French's brand on it reputed to have been found in his round barn. French is a legend in eastern Oregon and Burns has a museum with some of his stuff in it.
There is also the story of the Blue Bucket Mine I want to revisit. I had a friend (Keith Clark) who has since passed on, but he was something of an expert on the area and the story of the gold nuggets found along the trail.
It has been some years since I was on that section of 20, so it will be a kick.
Use the Millican shot as you like. I used to stop there when it was owned by a fellow who was sheriff, mayor, and I think maybe the only resident. He is long gone now, and Millican is following his fate.
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It looks like you should have a great trip! Seeing a strip that ends at a river or stream like you show is always inviting. Maybe the remnants of a bridge, a dugway, or even a bridge are still there.
One reason Searight didn't treat the National Road west of the state line was he said it just disappeared into the prairie. He attributed that to the rise of the railroads, and therefore a lack of need for the road. That, by the way, is a common historical footnote.
I have to go off topic a second and reflect on your software testing. In my immediate post college days I worked for IBM and was a marketing rep and a systems engineer. This was in the days of the “big iron,” the 700 series, 1401, 1440, and the first 360’s (that tells you how ancient I am!). Software testing back then was run it, debug it, patch it, and do it again, and again, often with your source code in a card deck. I spent a whole summer trying to get a payroll program to run in the 8K core memory of an 1130! Heck, one of your alignment photos alone would take up 10 times that much memory today!
I have somewhere around a great older book on US 40, but like all my other stuff, it is a voyage of discovery to find it. If I do, I’ll see what it has to say about the section you are traveling on the 7th.
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Do you have a roadside artifact or other interesting roadside attraction you are willing to share? This Forum wants a report (post) from you.
To get us going, I have posted a visit to the Hackberry General Store in Hackberry, Arizona.
I was there this last January and owner John Pritchard was behind the counter. There are few places along the old route where you will find a better stocked store for Route 66 memorabilia and reading material. And John is a Route 66 pro. But the highlight has got to be the fabulous collection of Route 66 items on display inside and out.
Give me a hand here and add your stories and photos...or just post your comments.
Hackberry on a 1936 Map.
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Congrats and welcome to the club. I assume you'll be buying drinks at the next moderators meeting.
Actually Denny, if there was anything such as a moderators’ meeting, it would be an honor to buy you a drink. I’ve enjoyed your writing in AR, you and Becky made Route 66 come alive when we took it last winter, and I enjoy each of your road adventures. You are the model Road Voyager!
That and two bits used to buy a cup of coffee, but no more!
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Hi cruisers992000
Massachusetts is a bit far for me, but I am reasonably familiar with Route 20 in Oregon, as I lived for many years in Bend, and we frequently travel it now between the Willamette Valley and the coast. My son still lives in Bend, and while it isn’t the way we normally go to see him, it might be fun to take a little spin along it in the next month or so.
Do you need or want any specific photos, or information I might pick up?
BTW, here is a shot of Millican on US 20 about 25 miles east of Bend on the high desert which I took this winter.
Millican, a Ghost Town on the High Desert 25 miles East of Bend, Oregon
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Roadhound,
Wells itself is worth a stop. Be sure to get to the section along the railroad track. It is a classic facing-the-tracks-town strip. (BTW, Belles Hacienda Ranch across the tracks is short on farm stock!). Seventh Street was the old road, then it moved south a block, and now it is I-80.
The Pikes Peak Ocean To Ocean through Wells, NV
Oasis is a little interesting, but Cobre is all but gone. There is some railroad history there.
I should also note that if you are coming out on the Victory through Winnemuca, you cross and follow the famed California Trail much of the way.
You will enjoy Montello. A few grab shots taken along the Pike’s Peak Ocean to Ocean Highway through Montello follow.
The Pike’s Peak Ocean to Ocean Highway eastbound out of Montello, NV
This may be the old railroad station, moved here and once a residence.I am enclosing the 1916 road directions below. This is from the 1916 TIB Guide.
The 1921 ABB page follows:
What is your route beyond Montello? I ask because I think you can drive on sections of the original transcontinental railroad bed if you are crossing north of Salt Lake.
More will follow as I get the opportunity.
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Yes, I am planning an Illinois National Road / US 40 trip (Indiana line to Vandalia), July 7th, with a friend who digs the National Road too. If there's a way for you to get me info from your book, I'd love to look for at least some of the stops and see what I can photograph for you. I haven't begun to research that trip yet beyond some cursory flythrus on Windows Live Local -- maybe this weekend.
Mobilene,
Here is a set of 1916 maps for your National Road Trip July 7. No doubt you have several guides already, but it is sometimes fun to include a period guide. TIB was mid west based (Kansas City) and did some fair strip maps. This copy is a little rough, but you use what you can find!
Have a great trip and post photos, story, and discoveries!
Keep the Show on the Road!
PS Note I am now THE MODERATOR for US Highways and Auto Trails (this section). I expect some respect!!!
You are as qualified as I am to do the moderator thing for US Highways and Auto Trails. Why don’t you volunteer and we can share duties (and the fame!!). Seriously (not that fame part).
BTW, Roadmavern commented to me in an e-mail today how much he appreciated your contributions to the forum. He may not have said that directly to you. I always say the most sincere form of compliment is the one you hear second hand, and I second his comment.
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W. Keith McManus here. I live part of the time in my hometown, Uniontown, Pa., in southwestern Pennsylvania and in Philadelphia, Pa.I am a documentary photographer and filmmaker with an interest in rural and small town America.
I have been a university professor (Rochester Institute of Technology) a editor at a weekly U.S. news magazine, U.S. News & World Report, a producer of PBS docs - also director of photography for PBS docs.
Usually drive between Uniontown and Philadelphia on U.S. 30, Pa. 31, Pa. 281, U.S. 40.
First welcome to the American Road Forum! You bring an impressive background to the group here! You also show the good judgment (my opinion), to follow the historic roads.
It seems to me that a fellow who is lucky enough to regularly drive the old Pennsylvania State Route 1 (AKA the Lincoln Highway) and the Pittsburg Pike, should be willing to share some of the wealth with the rest of us! How about posting a few choice recollections or experiences? Photos and links will also be appreciated.
I don’t want to presume your level of knowledge concerning that route. However if you don’t already have period descriptions, maps and the like, let us know.
Again, Welcome, and we look forward to seeing more posts from you. And don’t hesitate to post a question. If there is anything we shine at, it is sharing our “expertise” and experiences, solicited or not! And we really will enjoy what you have to share.
Keep the Show on the Road!
Dave
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Yes, I am planning an Illinois National Road / US 40 trip (Indiana line to Vandalia), July 7th, with a friend who digs the National Road too. If there's a way for you to get me info from your book, I'd love to look for at least some of the stops and see what I can photograph for you. I haven't begun to research that trip yet beyond some cursory flythrus on Windows Live Local -- maybe this weekend.
jim
First, thanks for the offer!
The book I was thinking of is “The Old Pike, a History of the National Road” by Thomas B Searight, 1897 I looked in it today and he ends his coverage basically at Indianapolis. So thanks again for the offer, but I drew a blank.
I’m looking forward to seeing your write up! The National Road and US 40 are on my to do list.
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The Olympic Hotel opened at 4th & University in December 1924, but I don't know if that would have anything to do with the western end of the route, since the Yellowstone Trail predates the hotel. The Pioneer Square location still seems most logical to me, as it's considered in the heart of old Seattle.
That is the answer! The Olympic Hotel. You must have a significant knowledge of Seattle history to know that. I certainly didn’t, and it explains the starting point Hobbs selected. It isn’t a coincidence that the Olympic is described as “new and magnificent.” Is the Washington Hotel anywhere nearby? It follows the Olympic in the description.
The Hobbs Guides are not widely recognized, but they are valuable for their descriptions of commercial sites along the old roads, whereas the Automobile Blue Books are better with directions.
Thanks!
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Roadhound,
I have been to Montello via Wendover and Cobre, but not beyond. You should find Montello interesting and worth a drive around. Some nice photo ops, including a neat brick building on the main drag and some fascinating residences. I’ll be interested to hear what its like beyond Montello. And to see your photos.
The Victory and the later Lincoln were contiguous into Salt Lake (as I recall, I’ll confirm that in the AM), so No, that isn’t the Victory. But it is a very early auto road. I have a story around here about a couple driving that in 1908 or so in a Brush. That was the reason for my trip up the road.
Don’t despair however as my 1921 Transcontinental ABB states it is part of the Pikes Peak Ocean to Ocean Highway (PPOO), which I like better than the Victory anyway. I have the turn by turn for the route if you want it. I can probably add maps of the PPOO but it looks like you have a good start.
Let me know what you may want and I’ll try to scan it.
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This bridge is almost the opposite of Roadhound’s spectacular example. In contrast to the thousands of pictures of the “must see” Donner Summit Bridge taken over the years (of which Roadhound’s are the finest I have seen), the Seufert Viaduct is forgotten and ignored.
At one time the Seufert Viaduct, built in 1920, carried automobiles on the Old Oregon Trail Highway as it left The Dalles eastbound along the south side of the Columbia River. It now sits isolated and long forgotten, almost hidden below the Interstate 84 bridge beside and above it. For me the juxtaposition of the beautful arched two lane bridge and the stark interstate structure was interesting.
It is hard to imaging today that travelers once enjoyed a beautiful view of the Columbia River from the bridge. Now it exists only to carry an occasional car to a house or two, and to an almost unused river overlook.
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Rick,
The only thing I don't like about your photos is that they make me want to jump in the car and go there. I have seen photos of that bridge a hundred times, and never done as well as you have done it.
Thre are lots of stories about it as well, and I certainly have some old postcards of it somewhere here.
I'll post a really unknown bridge sometime today that is on the old Oregon Trail Highway and maybe another just off the California - Baniff Beeline. But they won't be as impressive as yours.
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Thank you very much for the information! The route from Pioneer Square probably makes more sense then from the intersection of Madison Street and Railroad Avenue, which though more direct, it would have been much steeper. There is still an original red brick paved segment of the Yellowstone Trail route over by Redmond, Washington (see: http://www.historylink.org/essays/output.cfm?file_id=2363 ).
Dusty,
As a footnote to “Where did the Yellowstone Trail Start/ End in Seattle?” I checked the 1919 Yellowstone Trail Route Folder reproduction I have (available at the Hitching Post http://americanroadmagazine.com/catalog/) and did not find a specific starting point identified.
Then while I was looking for something else, I found a 1926 Hobbs Guide for the Yellowstone Trail. They started the trail at 4th and University. Go figure! What makes 4th and University important? Any idea?
The irony for me is that I had this very interesting guide in my collection and didn’t remember having it! We took a trip on the Yellowstone a few weeks ago and I would have enjoyed having this baby along!
I have never organized the thousands of things I have, so looking through them is like a treasure hunt. I never know what I’ll will discover!
You and a couple of others here, by asking questions, are getting me to the point where I have to add some bookshelves and get this stuff out of boxes. Maybe that is my between road trips project. That’s great. So thanks for the questions and for your insights.
Keep the Show on the Road!
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Dusty,
I appreciate everything you wrote. You are obviously a keen observer. No, the paint used in Washington was yellow, but had nothing to do with the Yellowstone Trail. Wish I could say otherwise.
I would like to find out when the state used yellow and when it used white because it would help date both guard posts and pavement stripes, and thus the alignments. I live in Olympia, and could probably find out if I got ambitious.
As you probably know, the Yellowstone Trail in Washington was not as well recognized or acknowledged as in some other areas. Washington gave names to her highways, and the Yellowstone was called the Inland Empire Highway in its southern loop before 1925 and as the Sunset Highway between Spokane and Seattle when it (YST) was re routed via Waterville, etc. When you travel those roads today, the State names still prevail.
The point of that observation is that Washington didn’t spend money to identify the Yellowstone Trail, and the Association didn’t have the money to paint more than arrows to mark the route.
The only yellow paint related to the Yellowstone I know of is on Snoqualmie Pass and at Rosalia, as noted in my posts.
Which parts of the Yellowstone have you traveled? I’ve gone well into Montana, but not further. Did you know we have the leading world authorities on the Yellowstone here on the forum? (Not me!!). The Ridges (John and Alice) are moderators here in the Yellowstone Trail section and of course authors and writers in American Road.
As a member, you are welcome to my big “secret” photo process, which I will send to your email address on the members list.
Keep the questions and road knowledge coming. And of course Keep the Show on the Road!
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Well, we are home from an abbreviated trip. My father in law fell and cracked his hip at the Alzheimer's unit where he lives and had to go to the hospital for surgery. I failed to get to a lot of the places we wanted, but had a great few days on the bay at Hill's Motor Court. I posted a couple of photos in the gallery in the Reese's Photo Pieces album, but will try to write a summary with photos in the near future...
Dave,
It looks like Hill's Motor Court offers some beautiful views. And the "main street" shot is interesting. I look foward to more!
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Wow, KTSOTR, you are one researching machine! This is a fabulous resource.
It's not surprising that US 36 was built on existing roads, but to see proof of that is fascinating.
The question I always have is: At what point did the road cease to be a convenience for the people who lived there, and instead become the reason people settled?
Thanks for finding these great resources.
jim
The IUPIU University Library site is really exceptional and Indiana folks are lucky to have it. It has lots of goodies beyond the maps.
The research thing is my winter forte, when the weather is lousy in the Northwest. But I enjoy discovering things like the IUPIU University Library site anytime. Hester_nec has suggested a section on the forum for links, and I would nominate this as one of those that should be listed.
I really, really want to speculate a bit in regard to your question, but it would lead into a long discussion of road history, waterways, railroads, streetcars, interurbans, and who built and maintained roads, and organized road development. For now I better just enjoy your road adventures, stifle my “academic” leanings, and plan a road trip of my own!
Don’t I recall you are planning a National Road trip? I have a book written in the early 1900’s around here somewhere that describes the old taverns and stops along the road, which back then were rapidly disappearing. I would love to see some photos of some places that might have survived, in one form or another. And I think one of our top road trip gurus, DennyG ,is a National Road expert, so you might want to rattle his chain also.
Looking forward to your further road adventures.....
Let’s Keep the Show on the Road!
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This may get a little esoteric, but since I was looking for, and found some 1800s and early 1900’s maps of Indiana on line, let me share a bit.
There was in 1898, and no doubt before, a wagon road running pretty much directly east and west through Rockville, Belmore, Hollandsburg, and Morton in Parke County. .
There is also a road, going due west in 1909 through Hendricks county through Avon, Dansville and New Winchester, which when leaving Indianapolis on an 1899 map is referred to as the “Old Danville State Road” (Not the National Road)
Next I found an 1879 atlas of Putnam County which clearly shows your road from the county line to Bainbridge and west, including the section past the cemetery we were discussing.
So it certainly appears that US 36 has a long history, no doubt worthy of more study.
The maps are on at the following links. Search on the county name and on Indianapolis to find the specific maps. It is a wonderful site for early Indiana maps. It fact, it is a great site for things Indiana. It seldom gets better, and I think I know.
http://indiamond6.ulib.iupui.edu/HIM/
and
http://indiamond6.ulib.iupui.edu/HistAtlas/
These are both at the IUPIU University Library.
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Alex,
A nice collection! You are right, the ads are also interesting. I like to compare them “then and now” whenever I spot an old business building or landmark they note that still exists.
The availability of old ABB’s is directly inverse to the distance from New York. I threw that “directly inverse” in there to confuse casual readers and prove I completed high school. What did he say?!! The further you get from NY, the harder they are to find.
The pride of my collection is a 1912 for the west, when there were no real roads across country.
The ABB’s aren’t always easy to follow because what was evident if you were on the road in say 1917 wasn’t noted, but may be important 90 years later. None the less, they are fascinating, and I use them all the time. They often are the only source available with any detail at all.
Mobilene , I should mention that I can probably provide similar material for your upcoming trips if you give me some details as to starting points, routes, and ending points. I also have what is called the TIB Guide with more maps, and may have a Hobbs Guide. Sometimes the TIB has strip maps, and the Hobbs lists accommodations and the like.
And I should add that occasionally the reverse of a Blue Book route will reveal a fork or landmark not cited in the other direction, so if you get stymied, let me know and I will send the reverse route.
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I grew up in Northern New Jersey. My Dad was a Ford guy, and the family drove in many versions of the Country Squire.
In 1969 I left for California, to Stanford Univ. My first car was a mid-60s VW bug, a convertible, and I drove it everywhere--up in to the Santa Cruz Mountains, up to San Francisco. Then one day, near where Neil Young now has his ranch, the engine seized and fried.
I've been VP/Sales for the world's largest rock & roll merchandising companies (Winterland Prod., Sony Signatures, Signatures Network). I've worked for just about every major rock band you can think of, handling their retail campaigns. Along the way, I fell in love with Acura's. My TSX is a great rockin' car,
and most recently I've been glued to Jerry Lee Lewis' latest, LAST MAN STANDING.
My first book, GRATEFUL DEAD BOOK OF THE DEAD HEADS, was published in 1983; Jerry Garcia himself wrote the foreword. That led to my writing "the bible" on rock posters, THE ART OF ROCK: POSTERS FROM PRESLEY TO PUNK, published in '87 (and for which concert promoter Bill Graham wrote the foreword). I co-authored the coffeetable book for the Hard Rock Cafe, TREASURES ('01), then co-authored ART OF MODERN ROCK: THE POSTER EXPLOSION ('04), the follow-up "New Testament."
Most recently, I'm proud to tell you, I authored ROCKIN' DOWN THE HIGHWAY: THE CARS AND PEOPLE WHICH MADE ROCK ROLL. It was published in Nov. ' 06 by Voyageur Press, an imprint of Motorbooks.
It's the first-ever book about rock & roll and the automobile. I'm not here to sell you anything, just introduce myself, but if you're interested to learn more, check out www.rockindownthehighway.com and in particular, click on 'author blog.'
My first true rock & roll experience was hearing THE VENTURES LIVE IN JAPAN, in junior high school, which led me to the Beach Boys, which led me to Motown. Once out on the West Coast, just a month after Woodstock, I was hooked on San Francisco-style psychedelic rock. I've the greatest respect for musicians like the Grateful Dead, Bruce Springsteen and the E-Street Band, Graham Parker, Flaco Jimenez, Little Feat, and about 200 others across time and space.
I love road trips. I love music that goes along with those road trips. In order to do the ROCKIN' book, I learned about some 4,000 songs which reference cars, trucks, buses, travel, highways, etc.
The one song that appears on just about everyone's list of top car songs is . . . Golden Earring's RADAR LOVE.
This looks like a great site, and I hope to visit often. Look forward to hearing from you, and learning about your own experiences out on the road.
Paul
Rockin Author
Those are some pretty impressive credentials! You are sure to find some kindred spirits here.
It probably is a function of my advanced years, but Travelin’ Band in Last Man Standing is a favorite is a great album.!
Welcome aboard! We look forward to your participation!
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Jim,
I forgot a pretty useful tool for here in Marion County from the IndyGov web site. It's called the "General Data Viewer". It's basically a Terra Server thing, but the great part is they have "layers" that date back as far as 1937! It's been very useful in researching old alignments as well as some old motels & other structures throughout Marion County. It's a little tricky to get to the old aerial pix, but here's the link for you to spend HOURS on: http://imaps.indygov.org/prod/GeneralViewer/viewer.htm
Let me know if you need any tips on navigating it.
Roadmavern,
Interesting map overlays. Wouldn't it be great to have them for a larger area!
It was fun to see the development west of the city over the years.
Do you know of any on line historic topos for Indiana?
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Hare It Is!
in American Road E-Newsletters
Posted
Hares to you and Thomas for a fun podcast!
Recommended listening.
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