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Celebrating our two-lane highways of yesteryear…And the joys of driving them today!

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Guest Lulupic66@aol.com

In a message dated 4/26/03 7:54:44 AM Central Daylight Time,

 

wefly66@earthlink.net writes:

 

 

 

<< Favorite place where '66 crosses herself? Devils Elbow, MO -- 40's 4

 

lane alignment crosses the 20's alignment that actually runs through

 

Devils Elbow.

 

>>

 

I know exactly what intersection that you are talking about if you are

 

headed north on that intersection? On the west side of that alignement there

 

is an old Motor Court

 

Lulu

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Guest Mike Ward

Dave,

 

 

 

Thanks for the good words. I've put a spreadsheet in the American Road files

 

(MAPDATING.xls) that lists most of the known road map date codes. This should

 

help list members date some of those old road maps they have, particularly when

 

the maps didn't have an easily recognizable copyright date.

 

 

 

There are some cartographers that never seemed to put a decipherable code on any

 

of their maps so it falls to checking known alignments of roads against what is

 

shown on their maps to try and narrow down a publication date.

 

 

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

> Gas station maps also are hard put to tell you when,

 

> for starters, most of them have no copyright date.

 

> I suspect this was to forestall their obsolescence.

 

> The motoring public might well be skeptical of last

 

> years map, even enough to change brands perhaps.

 

 

 

As to dating gas station maps, most had a code along the edge which

 

gave a clue to the if you know what the codes mean. Most of these

 

were made by Gousha or Rand McNally or some other map maker for the

 

gas companies, and each map maker had their own unique coding. List

 

member Mike Ward knows a lot more about this than I do, so hopefully

 

he will chime in here.

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Guest AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com

Hello,

 

 

 

This email message is a notification to let you know that

 

a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the AMERICAN_ROAD

 

group.

 

 

 

File : /MAPDATING.xls

 

Uploaded by : flyboy46.geo <flyboy1946@hotmail.com>

 

Description : Are you trying to find out how old that road map is? Here's

 

where you may be able to find out.

 

 

 

You can access this file at the URL

 

 

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AMERICAN_ROA...s/MAPDATING.xls

 

 

 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

 

 

 

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

 

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

flyboy46.geo <flyboy1946@hotmail.com>

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Guest David G. Clark

--- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Ward" <flyboy1946@h...>

 

wrote:

 

> Dave,

 

>

 

> Thanks for the good words. I've put a spreadsheet in the American

 

>Road files (MAPDATING.xls) that lists most of the known road map

 

>date codes. This should help list members date someof those old

 

>road maps they have, particularly when the maps didn't have an

 

>easily recognizable copyright date.

 

 

 

Thanks Mike.

 

 

 

Old maps are valuable as a document of more than just the roads. One

 

map Mike scanned for me last year is a 1930s vintage Gousha map

 

distributed by Standard Oil of Indiana. The map features "S" symbols

 

on the map everywhere a filling station selling their brand of

 

gasoline was located. This helped me to determine that a service

 

station near Chicago which still operates as a repair shop (no

 

pumps) was indeed a Standard Station 70 years ago.

 

 

 

Dave Clark

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Guest Jim Ross

Dave, et. al.,

 

 

 

It's good to see some real chatter on this list. Thanks to you and the others

 

for this fun thread of highways crossing each other, reliability of maps,

 

documents, etc.

 

 

 

I have been preaching for years that the absolute most reliable sources are

 

copies of actual construction plans, other official project data, or the minutes

 

of annual reports that describe changes in detail at the time they were approved

 

or completed. Even then there are trap doors to watch out for, but I'll save

 

that for another post.

 

 

 

It amazes me sometimes the lengths writers will go to scrounging up and studying

 

maps until they are cross-eyed from conflicting information and then end up

 

trying to explain every possible way it MIGHT have been, when in many cases a

 

call to someone at their local DOT could have resulted in quick, official and

 

accurate answers as well as documented proof to back it up.

 

 

 

My favorite example of this relates to the challenge Jerry McClanahan and I

 

faced in trying to ACCURATELY sort out the evolution of US 66 alignments through

 

Arlington, MO. Rather than pull my hair out trying to determine which sources to

 

rely on, I wrote a letter to MODOT and basically asked for the world. I asked

 

for construction plans for I-40 that would show the "existing" road and aerial

 

photos they might have. I also asked for any construction plans they might have

 

for the first generation 2-lane paving that would also show the "existing"

 

(dirt) road. In reply I got a huge package in the mail with all I asked for and

 

more. As a result, we learned things that no one could ever have known about the

 

tangle of roads between Sugartree and Jerome. I realize this is a best-case

 

scenario, but you get the idea.

 

 

 

And Kip is right on. Route 66, as an example, crosses itself in so many places

 

it could make a fun trivia game. I'm sure the same is true for many of our other

 

historic highways.

 

 

 

Jim R.

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Guest David G. Clark

--- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ross" <pathfinder66@e...>

 

wrote:

 

>

 

> I have been preaching for years that the absolute most reliable

 

sources are copies of actual construction plans, other official

 

project data, or the minutes of annual reports that describe changes

 

in detail at the time they were approved or completed. Even then

 

there are trap doors to watch out for, but I'll save that for another

 

post.

 

 

 

 

 

Jim:

 

 

 

Most of my research has been of the period of the 1920s-1930s, long

 

before the Interstate era. I have contacted a few folks at IDOT who

 

have been quite nice, but they say that all records that old have

 

been given to the Illinois State Library. The library has the records

 

in storage, and at this point no one has gone through them to create

 

any sort of index, catalog, or any organization whatever. "Sitting in

 

a locked room, in boxes, no order to anything" is the way they were

 

described to me.

 

 

 

Annual Reports are available from the Division of Highways from this

 

period, as well as an old publications such as the Illinois Highways

 

newsletter of 1915-1917. But these are general, as opposed to

 

specific, and are valuable for some excellent insights into the time

 

period when good roads just did not exist in the way we think of them

 

today. (Actually, the annual reports can be numbing in specificity if

 

you want to know the annualized interest compounding on EACH and

 

EVERY road bond. That's just not the kind of "specific" I'm looking

 

for.)

 

 

 

Great stuff from the reports include descriptions of the items that

 

the first highway patrolment carried, which included some sort of

 

portable device for weighing trucks to ensure they were not too

 

heavy. Also, they would specifically list some projects or

 

construction done in the year covered, but other jobs would simply be

 

tabulated by county or totaled by work performed by a specific road

 

crew.

 

 

 

I'm sure info on the 40s forward is much more readily available. I've

 

been to the IDOT library in Springfield and will be going again when

 

and as necessary. Also, the I have just skimmed the surface at the

 

Libraries of the University of Illinois, both in Chicago and

 

Champagne and there is much more to be done at both.

 

 

 

 

 

>

 

> It amazes me sometimes the lengths writers will go to scrounging up

 

and studying maps until they are cross-eyed from conflicting

 

information and then end up trying to explain every possible way it

 

MIGHT have been, when in many cases a call to someone at their local

 

DOT could have resulted in quick, official and accurate answers as

 

well as documented proof to back it up.

 

>

 

 

 

And this has been quite true of of several contacts I have made at

 

the Cook County Highway Dept and two folks at IDOT. The city of

 

Chicago says I have to fill out an official request per the Freedom

 

of Information Act. I'll do that of course at some point, so far I've

 

had plenty of info from other sources.

 

 

 

Dave Clark

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Guest Rob Carnachan

David,

 

 

 

Corner Bakery is the one I was thinking of.

 

 

 

Rob Carnachan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>From: "David G. Clark" <olympia66@netzero.net>

 

>Reply-To: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com

 

>To: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com

 

>Subject: [AMERICAN_ROAD] Re: Chicago walking tour (was (unknown))

 

>Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 00:06:05 -0000

 

>

 

 

 

 

 

_________________________________________________________________

 

Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.

 

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

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Guest rudkip@sbcglobal.net>

Thank you for the correction! Yes, it is Lebanon not Lincon...sorry for the

 

mixup; my feeble mind sometimes gets its wires crossed...Tsingtao Kip

 

----- Original Message -----

 

From: "J Lance" <bugo@hotmail.com>

 

To: <AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com>

 

Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 9:41 PM

 

Subject: Re: [AMERICAN_ROAD] Digest Number 700

 

 

 

 

 

>

 

> AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 

> >

 

> > There are 2 messages in this issue.

 

> >

 

> > Topics in this digest:

 

> >

 

> > 1. Re: U.S.Route 50 question

 

> > From: "Dave Johnsen" <dcjcycle@earthlink.net>

 

> > 2. Re: American Sign Museum Opening

 

> > From: "Jennifer" <jabremer66@aol.com>

 

> >

 

> >

 

> > ________________________________________________________________________

 

> > ________________________________________________________________________

 

> >

 

> > Message: 1

 

> > Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:47:26 -0500

 

> > From: "Dave Johnsen" <dcjcycle@earthlink.net>

 

> > Subject: Re: U.S.Route 50 question

 

> >

 

> > <rudkip@sbcglobal.net> wrote...

 

> >> --50 piggybacks I-44 to Lindbergh Blvd. in St. Louis...then connects

 

with

 

> >> I-255 to cross the Misssissippi and follows that to I-64...it follows

 

> >> I-64

 

> >> for several miles before veering off to Lincoln, IL...real cute little

 

> >> downtown there....

 

> >> --outside of Lincoln you can turn right off of 50 and take old 50

 

through

 

> >> Summerfield and Trenton...Trenton is a cool little town with lots of

 

cool

 

> >> signs, a great bowling alley and the Trenton House Restaurant, which

 

may

 

> >> have the best onion rings you will ever find...

 

> >

 

> > Um, you meant LEBANON instead of Lincoln, right? Maybe you've been

 

driving

 

> > Route 66 too much!

 

> >

 

> > There are a few other sections of old 50 further east, some of which are

 

> > signed as IL 250 (Olney and Lawrenceville). Olney is known for its white

 

> > (albino) squirrels.

 

> >

 

> > --Dave Johnsen

 

> > Chicago, IL

 

>

 

> There's a great burger joint on US 50 in Sedalia, MO called Eddie's

 

> Drive-In. Their steakburgers put Steak N Shake to shame. It's right in

 

the

 

> middle of town, on the south side of the highway.

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> Visit our homepage at: http://www.mockturtlepress.com

 

>

 

> To subscribe to AMERICAN ROAD magazine, PHONE TOLL-FREE 1-877-285-5434

 

WITH YOUR ORDER TODAY!

 

> Or send payment to: Mock Turtle Press, PO Box 3168, Lynnwood, WA

 

98046-3168

 

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> (save $3.85 off the newsstand price!)

 

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AMERICAN_ROAD-subscribe@yahoogroups.comTo POST a message via e-mail, send it

 

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>

 

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Guest Rudyard Welborn

Dear Friends:

 

 

 

THE STANLEY COUR-TEL SIGN IS AGAIN WITHIN OUR REACH! As you know, a year ago

 

there were efforts made to obtain the Stanley Cour-Tel Motel sign. This sign

 

had been in place on Route 66 since the 50's, guiding people to a place which

 

served many a traveler along Route 66. The Stanley was also the host motel for

 

the Apollo 1 astronauts when they trained for the first manned space mission.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, our efforts to obtain the sign at that time failed, as the owners

 

of the sign decided to sell the Stanley Court-El sign, the Office sign, and the

 

two signs at the nearby Lin-Air Motel to the highest bidder.

 

 

 

Recently, the signs were discovered in a lot in North St. Louis County. The new

 

owner of the sign has shown a willingness to part with the Stanley Court-El sign

 

and the "Office" sign for $3,000.00. This is a considerable amount of money;

 

however, it is considerably less than what the new owner paid for the signs and,

 

more importantly, is an amount that is well within our grasp.

 

 

 

However, to achieve this goal, WE NEED YOUR HELP! A donation from you would be

 

of great assistance in bringing the signs back to Route 66. Please make your tax

 

deductable donations payable to Friends of the Mother Road, Inc. Please put on

 

the memo line of your check "Stanley Sign" and the money will be earmarked for

 

that purpose. Please send all donations to:

 

 

 

Friends of the Mother Road, Inc.

 

3947 Russell

 

St. Louis, MO 63110

 

 

 

Your help in this endeavor will be greatly appreciated. If you have any

 

questions, let me know. Thanks, Kip

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Guest brownwho63

Eddie's Drive-In is a wonderful stop and the food is great. While in

 

Sedalia, be sure to take a trip through the downtown area. Another

 

trip into the past....Bliss

 

 

 

>

 

> There's a great burger joint on US 50 in Sedalia, MO called Eddie's

 

> Drive-In. Their steakburgers put Steak N Shake to shame. It's

 

right in the

 

> middle of town, on the south side of the highway.

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Greetings-

 

 

 

We touch upon the Pacific milestone on our web site:

 

http://www.drivetheost.com/ca.html..

 

 

 

To take the Lee Highway discussion a bit further, its basic alignment,

 

except for a stretch between Memphis and El Paso, was recast in 1927

 

as the Broadway of America. Charles Taylor, a booster from Las Cruces,

 

New Mexico, came up with the idea of the "Broadway" to counteract

 

Route 66 to the north. Tired of losing traffic and business to

 

Albuquerque and Santa Fe, Taylor and a group of El Paso businessmen

 

formed the Broadway of America Highway Association, promising a new

 

100-foot wide highway from Broadway, New York to Broadway, Los

 

Angeles. Its name had a bit of sophistication to it, and can be read

 

as a less than subtle putdown to Route 66's more homespun "Main Street

 

of America."

 

 

 

Learning from the mistakes of earlier private highway highways, the

 

Association wisely selected a route made primarily of already

 

federally improved(85%)roads,promising America's first "all paved, all

 

year, snow-free" highway. (They also got ahold of Col. Fletcher ASAP,

 

who later claimed in his memoirs to have invented the idea himself!).

 

Beating all odds, this last named highway prospered through the 1930s,

 

while most private trail associations shuttered their operations.

 

 

 

Predating Route 66, the Broadway of America had its own promo song.

 

The number, the "Broadway of America," similar in structure to future

 

Bobby Troup composition, moved along the highway, but instead of

 

clever word play and reference to specific towns, pandered in the

 

general and the cliche. For Kentucky the refrain goes, "fields of

 

cotton and corn, where piccannies sing in happy glee." Ah, America in

 

the 1920s.

 

 

 

The significance of both highways is they originated in New Mexico,

 

about 100 miles away from each other.

 

 

 

JWM, drivetheost.com

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--- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "JWM" <drivetheost@y...> wrote:

 

> Greetings-

 

Tired of losing traffic and business to

 

> Albuquerque and Santa Fe, Taylor and a group of El Paso businessmen

 

> formed the Broadway of America Highway Association, promising a new

 

> 100-foot wide highway from Broadway, New York to Broadway, Los

 

> Angeles. Its name had a bit of sophistication to it, and can be read

 

> as a less than subtle putdown to Route 66's more homespun "Main Street

 

> of America."

 

 

 

I think that's broadway in San Diego, not Los Angeles.

 

 

 

Do you have more detailed maps of the OST? Ones such as ACSC strip maps or

 

detailed

 

driving guides? All I've seen are the less detailed maps and guides on the

 

Centennial site.

 

I'd really like to drive the OST someday as I used to live in Tucson, Douglas

 

(AZ) and

 

Florida. The Trail goes through some of America's more interesting cities such

 

as San

 

Antonio and New Orleans, neither of which I've really visited as an adult. The

 

OST probably

 

did not follow the later 40s and 50s alignments of US-80 and 90 (see below). In

 

fact one

 

very old map indicates it followed CA-94 in San Diego County (through Campo).

 

Old

 

driving guides and city maps from the 20s are what's needed. That and

 

exploration to find

 

the concrete and old utility poles and such....

 

 

 

-

 

 

 

The ironic thing about San Diego County is that it seemed to have a great many

 

auto trail

 

alignments, and ended up with three federal highways (80, 101, 395). Now it has

 

no US

 

highways at all, only the Interstates and state highways. It has a good share of

 

those, but

 

all the US routes are "historical."

 

 

 

After examining web sites, visiting historical societies, driving around and

 

looking at aerial

 

photos, I've found a few old alignments of these highways in San Diego County. I

 

discovered old bridges and concrete for the original path of US-395 through

 

Fallbrook and

 

Vista. Most people here don't even know it went that way. They normally only

 

know about

 

the post-40s alignment parallel to the I-15.

 

 

 

I recently looked at aerials for old US-80, and sections of both the 1927 and

 

1941

 

alignments are visible. Most people know of the 1941 path and a couple web sites

 

discuss

 

travelling it, but the auto trails like the OST and Lee Hwy went along the older

 

path. NGS

 

and the San Diego County survey web sites list the benchmarks from the 1920s and

 

1930s. Even if the discs are gone, the former locations of them are known, and

 

that helps

 

find the road. Some of them would be very hard to get to, but I found one long

 

accessible

 

section right between the east-west lanes of I-8. (Many people know about the

 

one at

 

Mountain Spring already it seems.) I can also see a few little pre-1941 sections

 

winding

 

around the later road in places such as Jacumba.

 

 

 

I'm thinking of putting notated aerials on my web site.

 

 

 

Parsa

 

http://ushighway66.com/

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Guest Mike Ward

I have a copy of the 1930 Automobile Club of Southern California book of strip

 

maps for the Old Spanish Trail if anyone needs scans from it.

 

 

 

Mike Ward

 

----- Original Message -----

 

From: parsa9<mailto:parsa9@yahoo.com>

 

To: <mailto:AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com>

 

Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 10:01 AM

 

Subject: [AMERICAN_ROAD] Re: Lee Hwy/Old Spanish Trail (Pacific Milestone)

 

 

 

 

 

--- In <mailto:AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com>,

 

"JWM" <drivetheost@y<mailto:drivetheost@y>...> wrote:

 

> Greetings-

 

Tired of losing traffic and business to

 

> Albuquerque and Santa Fe, Taylor and a group of El Paso businessmen

 

> formed the Broadway of America Highway Association, promising a new

 

> 100-foot wide highway from Broadway, New York to Broadway, Los

 

> Angeles. Its name had a bit of sophistication to it, and can be read

 

> as a less than subtle putdown to Route 66's more homespun "Main Street

 

> of America."

 

 

 

I think that's broadway in San Diego, not Los Angeles.

 

 

 

Do you have more detailed maps of the OST? Ones such as ACSC strip maps or

 

detailed

 

driving guides? All I've seen are the less detailed maps and guides on the

 

Centennial site.

 

I'd really like to drive the OST someday as I used to live in Tucson, Douglas

 

(AZ) and

 

Florida. The Trail goes through some of America's more interesting cities such

 

as San

 

Antonio and New Orleans, neither of which I've really visited as an adult. The

 

OST probably

 

did not follow the later 40s and 50s alignments of US-80 and 90 (see below).

 

In fact one

 

very old map indicates it followed CA-94 in San Diego County (through Campo).

 

Old

 

driving guides and city maps from the 20s are what's needed. That and

 

exploration to find

 

the concrete and old utility poles and such....

 

 

 

-

 

 

 

The ironic thing about San Diego County is that it seemed to have a great many

 

auto trail

 

alignments, and ended up with three federal highways (80, 101, 395). Now it

 

has no US

 

highways at all, only the Interstates and state highways. It has a good share

 

of those, but

 

all the US routes are "historical."

 

 

 

After examining web sites, visiting historical societies, driving around and

 

looking at aerial

 

photos, I've found a few old alignments of these highways in San Diego County.

 

I

 

discovered old bridges and concrete for the original path of US-395 through

 

Fallbrook and

 

Vista. Most people here don't even know it went that way. They normally only

 

know about

 

the post-40s alignment parallel to the I-15.

 

 

 

I recently looked at aerials for old US-80, and sections of both the 1927 and

 

1941

 

alignments are visible. Most people know of the 1941 path and a couple web

 

sites discuss

 

travelling it, but the auto trails like the OST and Lee Hwy went along the

 

older path. NGS

 

and the San Diego County survey web sites list the benchmarks from the 1920s

 

and

 

1930s. Even if the discs are gone, the former locations of them are known, and

 

that helps

 

find the road. Some of them would be very hard to get to, but I found one long

 

accessible

 

section right between the east-west lanes of I-8. (Many people know about the

 

one at

 

Mountain Spring already it seems.) I can also see a few little pre-1941

 

sections winding

 

around the later road in places such as Jacumba.

 

 

 

I'm thinking of putting notated aerials on my web site.

 

 

 

Parsa

 

<http://ushighway66.com/>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Visit our homepage at:

 

<http://www.mockturtlepress.com/>

 

 

 

To subscribe to AMERICAN ROAD magazine, PHONE TOLL-FREE 1-877-285-5434 WITH

 

YOUR ORDER TODAY!

 

Or send payment to: Mock Turtle Press, PO Box 3168, Lynnwood, WA 98046-3168

 

SUBSCRIPTION RATES:

 

1 year (4 issues) for $15.95

 

(save $3.85 off the newsstand price!)

 

2 years (8 issues) for $27.95

 

(save $11.65 off the newsstand price!)

 

 

 

 

 

For questions about the list, contact: AMERICAN_ROAD-owner@yahoogroups.com

 

 

 

To SUBSCRIBE to this group, send an email to:

 

AMERICAN_ROAD-subscribe@yahoogroups.comTo POST a message via e-mail, send it to:

 

AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Guest Alex Burr

Drop the ca.html - opens fine after that.

 

 

 

Hudsonly,

 

Alex B

 

 

 

--- JWM <drivetheost@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

 

 

> Greetings-

 

>

 

> We touch upon the Pacific milestone on our web site:

 

> http://www.drivetheost.com/ca.html..

 

>

 

> To take the Lee Highway discussion a bit further,

 

> its basic alignment,

 

> except for a stretch between Memphis and El Paso,

 

> was recast in 1927

 

> as the Broadway of America. Charles Taylor, a

 

> booster from Las Cruces,

 

> New Mexico, came up with the idea of the "Broadway"

 

> to counteract

 

> Route 66 to the north. Tired of losing traffic and

 

> business to

 

> Albuquerque and Santa Fe, Taylor and a group of El

 

> Paso businessmen

 

> formed the Broadway of America Highway Association,

 

> promising a new

 

> 100-foot wide highway from Broadway, New York to

 

> Broadway, Los

 

> Angeles. Its name had a bit of sophistication to it,

 

> and can be read

 

> as a less than subtle putdown to Route 66's more

 

> homespun "Main Street

 

> of America."

 

>

 

> Learning from the mistakes of earlier private

 

> highway highways, the

 

> Association wisely selected a route made primarily

 

> of already

 

> federally improved(85%)roads,promising America's

 

> first "all paved, all

 

> year, snow-free" highway. (They also got ahold of

 

> Col. Fletcher ASAP,

 

> who later claimed in his memoirs to have invented

 

> the idea himself!).

 

> Beating all odds, this last named highway prospered

 

> through the 1930s,

 

> while most private trail associations shuttered

 

> their operations.

 

>

 

> Predating Route 66, the Broadway of America had its

 

> own promo song.

 

> The number, the "Broadway of America," similar in

 

> structure to future

 

> Bobby Troup composition, moved along the highway,

 

> but instead of

 

> clever word play and reference to specific towns,

 

> pandered in the

 

> general and the cliche. For Kentucky the refrain

 

> goes, "fields of

 

> cotton and corn, where piccannies sing in happy

 

> glee." Ah, America in

 

> the 1920s.

 

>

 

> The significance of both highways is they originated

 

> in New Mexico,

 

> about 100 miles away from each other.

 

>

 

> JWM, drivetheost.com

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

 

 

 

 

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems,

 

but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

__________________________________

 

Do you Yahoo!?

 

Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.

 

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OK, I need some help understanding something here. I've been keeping

 

track of the AAA guys and their journey along Route 66. However, I'm

 

a

 

bit perplexed as to the National Old Trails Road sign put up in

 

Adrian,

 

TX during their trip: http://www.aaa-

 

calif.com/images/travel/route66/day11-13/DSC_0614.jpg

 

 

 

Considering the path of the NOTR never came close to Adrian and

 

Chicago, this is a major blunder. The NOTR hooked up with 66 in Santa

 

Fe (old 66) and down into Albuquerque and on west onto 66 from there.

 

Call me nitpicky, but is historical accuracy asking too much?

 

 

 

Pat B.

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Here's a shorter link:

 

http://tinyurl.com/cdg5a

 

 

 

--- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...> wrote:

 

> OK, I need some help understanding something here. I've been keeping

 

> track of the AAA guys and their journey along Route 66. However, I'm

 

> a

 

> bit perplexed as to the National Old Trails Road sign put up in

 

> Adrian,

 

> TX during their trip: http://www.aaa-

 

> calif.com/images/travel/route66/day11-13/DSC_0614.jpg

 

>

 

> Considering the path of the NOTR never came close to Adrian and

 

> Chicago, this is a major blunder. The NOTR hooked up with 66 in Santa

 

> Fe (old 66) and down into Albuquerque and on west onto 66 from there.

 

> Call me nitpicky, but is historical accuracy asking too much?

 

>

 

> Pat B.

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Guest Mike Ward

Pat,

 

 

 

Not that I am advocating it in the slightest, but how long do you think it'll

 

take before some "collector" decides those signs would look better in his house

 

or on eBay than on the signpost in Adrian (whether they're

 

historically/geographically correct in that location or not).

 

 

 

Mike

 

----- Original Message -----

 

From: Pat B.<mailto:roadmaven@aol.com>

 

To: <mailto:AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com>

 

Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 12:35 PM

 

Subject: [AMERICAN_ROAD] Re: National Old Trails Road/AAA guys

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a shorter link:

 

<http://tinyurl.com/cdg5a>

 

 

 

--- In <mailto:AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com>,

 

"Pat B." <roadmaven@a<mailto:roadmaven@a>...> wrote:

 

> OK, I need some help understanding something here. I've been keeping

 

> track of the AAA guys and their journey along Route 66. However, I'm

 

> a

 

> bit perplexed as to the National Old Trails Road sign put up in

 

> Adrian,

 

> TX during their trip: <http://www.aaa-/>

 

> calif.com/images/travel/route66/day11-13/DSC_0614.jpg

 

>

 

> Considering the path of the NOTR never came close to Adrian and

 

> Chicago, this is a major blunder. The NOTR hooked up with 66 in Santa

 

> Fe (old 66) and down into Albuquerque and on west onto 66 from there.

 

> Call me nitpicky, but is historical accuracy asking too much?

 

>

 

> Pat B.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I'd bet by the time the Oklahomans are heading west to the Rendezvous

 

in September, they'll have missed the opportunity to miss the

 

signs! :-)

 

 

 

--- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Ward" <flyboy1946@h...>

 

wrote:

 

> Pat,

 

>

 

> Not that I am advocating it in the slightest, but how long do you

 

think it'll take before some "collector" decides those signs would

 

look better in his house or on eBay than on the signpost in Adrian

 

(whether they're historically/geographically correct in that location

 

or not).

 

>

 

> Mike

 

> ----- Original Message -----

 

> From: Pat B.<mailto:roadmaven@a...>

 

> To:

 

<mailto:AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com>

 

> Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 12:35 PM

 

> Subject: [AMERICAN_ROAD] Re: National Old Trails Road/AAA guys

 

>

 

>

 

> Here's a shorter link:

 

> <http://tinyurl.com/cdg5a>

 

>

 

> --- In

 

<mailto:AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com>, "

 

Pat B." <roadmaven@a<mailto:roadmaven@a>...> wrote:

 

> > OK, I need some help understanding something here. I've been

 

keeping

 

> > track of the AAA guys and their journey along Route 66.

 

However, I'm

 

> > a

 

> > bit perplexed as to the National Old Trails Road sign put up in

 

> > Adrian,

 

> > TX during their trip: <http://www.aaa-/>

 

> > calif.com/images/travel/route66/day11-13/DSC_0614.jpg

 

> >

 

> > Considering the path of the NOTR never came close to Adrian and

 

> > Chicago, this is a major blunder. The NOTR hooked up with 66 in

 

Santa

 

> > Fe (old 66) and down into Albuquerque and on west onto 66 from

 

there.

 

> > Call me nitpicky, but is historical accuracy asking too much?

 

> >

 

> > Pat B.

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> Visit our homepage at:

 

<http://www.mockturtlepress.com/>

 

>

 

> To subscribe to AMERICAN ROAD magazine, PHONE TOLL-FREE 1-877-285-

 

5434 WITH YOUR ORDER TODAY!

 

> Or send payment to: Mock Turtle Press, PO Box 3168, Lynnwood, WA

 

98046-3168

 

> SUBSCRIPTION RATES:

 

> 1 year (4 issues) for $15.95

 

> (save $3.85 off the newsstand price!)

 

> 2 years (8 issues) for $27.95

 

> (save $11.65 off the newsstand price!)

 

>

 

>

 

> For questions about the list, contact: AMERICAN_ROAD-

 

owner@yahoogroups.com

 

>

 

> To SUBSCRIBE to this group, send an email to: AMERICAN_ROAD-

 

subscribe@y... POST a message via e-mail, send it to:

 

AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

 

----------

 

> Yahoo! Groups Links

 

>

 

> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:

 

>

 

<http://groups.yahoo.com/g

 

roup/AMERICAN_ROAD/>

 

>

 

> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

 

> AMERICAN_ROAD-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AMERICAN_ROAD-

 

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>

 

>

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OK, I butchered this reply, but they'll be gone by September! That's

 

what I get for mixing keyboards and cold medicine. :-)

 

 

 

--- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...> wrote:

 

> I'd bet by the time the Oklahomans are heading west to the

 

Rendezvous

 

> in September, they'll have missed the opportunity to miss the

 

> signs! :-)

 

>

 

> --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Ward" <flyboy1946@h...>

 

> wrote:

 

> > Pat,

 

> >

 

> > Not that I am advocating it in the slightest, but how long do you

 

> think it'll take before some "collector" decides those signs would

 

> look better in his house or on eBay than on the signpost in Adrian

 

> (whether they're historically/geographically correct in that

 

location

 

> or not).

 

> >

 

> > Mike

 

> > ----- Original Message -----

 

> > From: Pat B.<mailto:roadmaven@a...>

 

> > To:

 

> <mailto:AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com>

 

> > Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 12:35 PM

 

> > Subject: [AMERICAN_ROAD] Re: National Old Trails Road/AAA guys

 

> >

 

> >

 

> > Here's a shorter link:

 

> > <http://tinyurl.com/cdg5a>

 

> >

 

> > --- In

 

>

 

<mailto:AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com>, "

 

> Pat B." <roadmaven@a<mailto:roadmaven@a>...> wrote:

 

> > > OK, I need some help understanding something here. I've been

 

> keeping

 

> > > track of the AAA guys and their journey along Route 66.

 

> However, I'm

 

> > > a

 

> > > bit perplexed as to the National Old Trails Road sign put up

 

in

 

> > > Adrian,

 

> > > TX during their trip: <http://www.aaa-/>

 

> > > calif.com/images/travel/route66/day11-13/DSC_0614.jpg

 

> > >

 

> > > Considering the path of the NOTR never came close to Adrian

 

and

 

> > > Chicago, this is a major blunder. The NOTR hooked up with 66

 

in

 

> Santa

 

> > > Fe (old 66) and down into Albuquerque and on west onto 66

 

from

 

> there.

 

> > > Call me nitpicky, but is historical accuracy asking too much?

 

> > >

 

> > > Pat B.

 

> >

 

> >

 

> >

 

> >

 

> > Visit our homepage at:

 

> <http://www.mockturtlepress.com/>

 

> >

 

> > To subscribe to AMERICAN ROAD magazine, PHONE TOLL-FREE 1-877-

 

285-

 

> 5434 WITH YOUR ORDER TODAY!

 

> > Or send payment to: Mock Turtle Press, PO Box 3168, Lynnwood,

 

WA

 

> 98046-3168

 

> > SUBSCRIPTION RATES:

 

> > 1 year (4 issues) for $15.95

 

> > (save $3.85 off the newsstand price!)

 

> > 2 years (8 issues) for $27.95

 

> > (save $11.65 off the newsstand price!)

 

> >

 

> >

 

> > For questions about the list, contact: AMERICAN_ROAD-

 

> owner@yahoogroups.com

 

> >

 

> > To SUBSCRIBE to this group, send an email to: AMERICAN_ROAD-

 

> subscribe@y... POST a message via e-mail, send it to:

 

> AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com

 

> >

 

> >

 

> >

 

> >

 

> >

 

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------

 

--

 

> ----------

 

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

 

> >

 

> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:

 

> >

 

>

 

<http://groups.yahoo.com/g

 

> roup/AMERICAN_ROAD/>

 

> >

 

> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

 

> > AMERICAN_ROAD-

 

unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:AMERICAN_ROAD-

 

> unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

 

> >

 

> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms

 

of

 

> Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.

 

> >

 

> >

 

> >

 

> >

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Guest R. Droz

Adrain, TX was on the Ozark Trails, according to the 1924 RMcN Auto Trail

 

map.

 

NOTR routing:

 

http://www.marion.ohio-state.edu/fac/schul...ional/notr.html

 

 

 

Ozark Trails - Note the "OT" marker -

 

http://www.marion.ohio-state.edu/fac/schul...onal/ozark.html

 

 

 

If the links get fudged:

 

http://www.marion.ohio-state.edu/fac/schul...ils/trails.html

 

 

 

Maybe they thought OT was Old Trails?

 

--

 

___________________________________________________________

 

Happy Motoring! _._._._.____~__

 

Robert V. Droz ( us98@earthlink.net ) [____________][___

 

U.S. Highways : From US 1 to (US 830) [________/____[_|__

 

http://www.us-highways.com/ ()() ()() ()

 

Route Logs - Standard Oil - Highway Makeover - Pics - Maps

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Guest bakerhab2003

Well, at least they got it right about Albuquerque being on the NOTR.

 

 

 

Helen

 

 

 

--- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...> wrote:

 

> OK, I need some help understanding something here. I've been keeping

 

> track of the AAA guys and their journey along Route 66. However, I'm

 

> a

 

> bit perplexed as to the National Old Trails Road sign put up in

 

> Adrian,

 

> TX during their trip: http://www.aaa-

 

> calif.com/images/travel/route66/day11-13/DSC_0614.jpg

 

>

 

> Considering the path of the NOTR never came close to Adrian and

 

> Chicago, this is a major blunder. The NOTR hooked up with 66 in Santa

 

> Fe (old 66) and down into Albuquerque and on west onto 66 from there.

 

> Call me nitpicky, but is historical accuracy asking too much?

 

>

 

> Pat B.

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That is true, and they look awesome. It'd be really good if they

 

could get some of those put up throughout the entire length of the

 

NOTR. But as Mike eluded to, they probably wouldn't be around for

 

long.

 

 

 

Pat B.

 

 

 

--- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "bakerhab2003" <Bakerhab@a...>

 

wrote:

 

> Well, at least they got it right about Albuquerque being on the

 

NOTR.

 

>

 

> Helen

 

>

 

> --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...>

 

wrote:

 

> > OK, I need some help understanding something here. I've been

 

keeping

 

> > track of the AAA guys and their journey along Route 66. However,

 

I'm

 

> > a

 

> > bit perplexed as to the National Old Trails Road sign put up in

 

> > Adrian,

 

> > TX during their trip: http://www.aaa-

 

> > calif.com/images/travel/route66/day11-13/DSC_0614.jpg

 

> >

 

> > Considering the path of the NOTR never came close to Adrian and

 

> > Chicago, this is a major blunder. The NOTR hooked up with 66 in

 

Santa

 

> > Fe (old 66) and down into Albuquerque and on west onto 66 from

 

there.

 

> > Call me nitpicky, but is historical accuracy asking too much?

 

> >

 

> > Pat B.

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Guest Fred M. Cain

--- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Reynolds"

 

<roustabout@s...> wrote:

 

> As promised, I have uploaded four 1990 photos of the Kinzua

 

> Bridge to the BabyBoomerBob directory. These include one with the

 

> tour train in the middle, and one of the supports from underneath.

 

> This is what it looked like before it was destroyed by last

 

summer's

 

> tornado.

 

 

 

Where is the Baby Boomer Bob collection. Also, are there any plans

 

to rebuild the bridge for future rail traffic?

 

 

 

-Fred M. Cain

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Guest Bob Reynolds

--- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Fred M. Cain"

 

<fredmcain@b...> wrote:

 

> --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Reynolds"

 

> <roustabout@s...> wrote:

 

> > As promised, I have uploaded four 1990 photos of the Kinzua

 

> > Bridge to the BabyBoomerBob directory. These include one with

 

the

 

> > tour train in the middle, and one of the supports from

 

underneath.

 

> > This is what it looked like before it was destroyed by last

 

> summer's

 

> > tornado.

 

>

 

> Where is the Baby Boomer Bob collection. Also, are there any

 

plans

 

> to rebuild the bridge for future rail traffic?

 

>

 

> -Fred M. Cain

 

 

 

The BabyBoomerBob directory is in this newsgroup under Photos.

 

 

 

The governor of Pennsylvania has declared that the estimated 45

 

million dollars needed to rebuild the bridge would be better spent

 

elsewhere. The only rail traffic using the bridge was a little

 

tourist train.

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