roadhound
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Roadhound,
I have been to Montello via Wendover and Cobre, but not beyond. You should find Montello interesting and worth a drive around. Some nice photo ops, including a neat brick building on the main drag and some fascinating residences. I’ll be interested to hear what its like beyond Montello. And to see your photos.
The Victory and the later Lincoln were contiguous into Salt Lake (as I recall, I’ll confirm that in the AM), so No, that isn’t the Victory. But it is a very early auto road. I have a story around here about a couple driving that in 1908 or so in a Brush. That was the reason for my trip up the road.
Don’t despair however as my 1921 Transcontinental ABB states it is part of the Pikes Peak Ocean to Ocean Highway (PPOO), which I like better than the Victory anyway. I have the turn by turn for the route if you want it. I can probably add maps of the PPOO but it looks like you have a good start.
Let me know what you may want and I’ll try to scan it.
Keep the Show on the road!
I would be extremely interested in seeing the turn by turn for the Eastern Neveda and Utah sections of the PPOO, especially if it covers the road between Wells and Montello. My choice when we get to Wells will be to stay on I-80 until Oasis and then head north or follow the route that is outlined on the 1919 map. I can see that there is a road that follows the railroad tracks just like 1919 map but the resolution on Google Earth is not high enough for that area to tell if it is paved or dirt.
I'm learning something new every day. Up until a few days ago when the PPOO was mentioned on another post I was not aware of it. I just spent a few minutes searching google for it and found a couple of informative sites with a few maps. I was not aware that it came out to my neck of the woods for a few years before they completely re-routed it down to LA.
Roadhound
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I am finalizing my route for a week long trip from California to Utah and back. I've got the return trip nailed down and we will be following the Lincoln Highway\US 50 westward. However, I am still working out details for the trip out which will be following I-80 east from Wadsworth to Wells. Just after Wells we will be heading North-East to Lucin, Utah, and catching the Transcontintal Roadway Bed and following it into Promontory, Utah.
I found the attached 1917 & 1919 Nevada maps on the University of Nevada web site. Is the road highlighted in red on the second map the Victory? What route did the VH take in Utah prior to the completion of the Wendover cutoff? I have read that the Victory was routed over the north end of the Great Salt Lake prior to building of the Wendover Cutoff but have never been able to locate any specifics on the location.
I am not able to find much on the web about the Victory Highway. Google searches don't turn up much and even though the VH is referenced in Wikipedia it does not have its own listing.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
1917 Nevada map
1919 Nevada map
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This bridge is almost the opposite of Roadhound’s spectacular example. In contrast to the thousands of pictures of the “must see” Donner Summit Bridge taken over the years (of which Roadhound’s are the finest I have seen), the Seufert Viaduct is forgotten and ignored.
At one time the Seufert Viaduct, built in 1920, carried automobiles on the Old Oregon Trail Highway as it left The Dalles eastbound along the south side of the Columbia River. It now sits isolated and long forgotten, almost hidden below the Interstate 84 bridge beside and above it. For me the juxtaposition of the beautful arched two lane bridge and the stark interstate structure was interesting.
Thanks for the compliments on my photos KtSotR. It makes it worth trudging through the 3 feet of snow lugging a camera and tripod in order to find the right angle. Feel free to post scans of the postcards whenever you have a chance to dig them out of your archives. I do need to go back when there is no snow. I've seen pictures of the Lincoln Highway not far from there and have an urge to investigate.
I really like the design of the Seufert Viaduct in contrast to the new, modern, version. I'm not an expert on bridge design, and I am sure that there are considerations that have to be made to handle modern traffic loads, but there has to be something better looking than the box and post design that they used. The sad thing is I may have driven over the new bridge 15 years ago and, like most people, had no clue what was just below it. Thanks for posting the pictures, another destination to add to my list.
Roadhound
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It has been way, way to long since a posting was made in this forum.
I would like to rectify that by posting a photo of one of the thousands of historic bridges from across the country and invite you to do the same. If you don't have any photos to share but have information on the subject I encourage you to share that as well.
This photo is of the Rainbow Bridge at Donner Summit. The concrete arched bridge overlooking Donner Lake was built in 1925 and as part of US 40 was a main east-west artery over the Sierra's until it was replaced by Interstate 80 in the mid 1960's. At an elevation of 7,239 feet U.S. 40 over Donner Summit was often closed during and after heavy snowfalls forcing motorists to us an alternate route that passed over the Sierra's further north at a lower elevation.
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That said, I think you'd be a great moderator for Bridges and Tunnels - we can have Pat and Jennifer set you up right away. Thanks for volunteering!
BeckyI accept the position. Looks like I have my work cut out for me since their hasn't been a post on that forum since mid-November.
Rick the Bridgehound
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Thanks so much! You have an awesome site. You take some incredible photos.
Becky
Thank You very much Becky. I sincerely appreciate the compliment. Photography is my passion and I hope that everyone has enjoyed some of the photos that I have posted on this board. I also hope the link on my website sends a few visitors your way.
I was going to volunteer to be the moderator for one of the web pages, Bridges & Tunnels maybe, but would like to know if I need to be a subject matter expert in the area or just a sheriff to keep the peace?
BTW, when should I expect to see the first issue of my subscription? I've read the reviews and am looking forward to reading the articles.
Rick the roadhound
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d)Add a link to the American Road website and forum.
4d is taken care of on my links page
roadhound
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DennyG and I were wondering about whether we need photo or model releases for the photos we post.
I found a legal answer that I can understand, and it comes from an expert. It is at Outdoor Photographer Magazine’s web site in an article written by Bob Kirst:
http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/content...releaseme.shtml.
It is a short and clear article. The source book is Photographer’s Legal Guide (www.photoattorney.com, 125 pages, $19). Written by attorney and photographer Carolyn Wright
My summary is not legal advice, but I interpret the article above to say that editorial use of images (as in a post) is OK without a release. If you make commercial use of the image....as say you sell one of your photos with my face in it and it is used to advertise bug repellant....without a release, I might successfully sue you.
Simple and sweet. But read the article or the book.
I’d like to pose the question of “What you do to get good people shots on your road trips”
Keep the Show on the Road
Your interpration of the article is correct. If the photos of a person is going to be used in an editorial way, such as posting on a message board, you do not need a release. If you use the image to sell a product then yes, a release is necessary. This has been confirmed a number of times in the courts.
What do I do to get good people shots on my road trips? Keep people out of them J/K
The people shots I generally take on a road trip are of my family which I try to keep off of the internet as much as possible. I get a lot of duds but every once in a while you catch them in a candid moment and get a good shot. I also have them pose and smile in front of something too, just to prove they were there with me. I try to keep people that I don't know out of my pictures which is not hard to do if you go to places that most people wouldn't bother going to.
Rick
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(Digression: Did you know that in the teens and 1920’s that Eucalyptus trees were promoted as a California crop? Some of my Sunset Magazines from the teens and 20’s tout them as a business prospect. There are still a few remnants of planted groves)
Yeah, until they figured out the wood was worthless. There are a number of groves still around but there has been an effort after the Oakland Hills fire to remove them. Oily trees in a semi-arid climate could lead to disastrous results.
I’m trying to place the half buried bridge in my minds eye. How about giving it a latitude and longitude. Also the Lat & Lon of where you think the Canyon Inn was.I remember when I overlaid the 1914 Topo on Google Earth that the old road east along Fraga kind of skirted along the bottom of the embankment of the newer road, leading me to believe that some of the old road wasn’t fully buried. And there is some sort of club or something east of Old Dublin on Fraga, but on the wrong side of the alignment to be the Canyon Inn.
The half buried bridge would conform to my notion, if it is evidence that the new road only half buried the old alignment. But I may be thinking of the wrong location.
The coordinates for the first and second bridge are:
37 41'51.65 N 122 02'26.32 W elev 270 ft marked as '1' on the attached topo
37 41'53.47 N 122 02'26.97 W elev 287 ft marked as '2' on the attached topo
I think this 1947 topo map shows it better.
I will have to keep searching for the Inn. I strongly suspect that it was either buried under the Interstate or was lost for some other reason and the property built over with a newer structure. The 6.2 mile mark is under the overpass but I have marked a couple of other possible spots. The spot marked with a 3 is the old house that I had previously referred to. You may need to come out and do some field research on this one, not sure where else to look.
There more I look at the old topos the more I realize that this canyon has really been hacked up. I am trying to figure out why they would build a bridge within spitting distance of one that was still there only at a slightly higher elevation. The area is in a basin and perhaps they were thinking of damming it off and creating a reservoir at one time and therefore needed to raise the elevation of the road? I don't know.
How is your Nevada- Utah Lincoln Highway trip shaping up?The summer Lincoln trip is coming along. I have the route that I am going to follow set and both my son and father are on board. Currently I am putting together the equipment list and making sure Rocinante is ready. If all goes as planned we will be doing this during the middle of July. I have followed the route numerous times on Google Earth, have overnight stops picked out, and a good idea what some of the points of interest are along the way (Thanks to you!)
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The Four Bridges of Dublin Canyon
I did some exploration last weekend in Dublin Canyon to identify what remains of the Lincoln Highway in the area.
Starting at San Ramon Rd and Dublin Blvd.
West 0.3 miles and turn left into the Hexcel parking lot
This short segment ends at the gated parking lot behind it. Behind the parking lot is I-580. This section would have been bypassed when the road was straightened for US 50. Notice the handsome vehicle on the right? That is "Rocinante." Bonus points if you can name at least 3 literary references where the name comes from.
Backtracking to San Ramon road, and turn right (south). Right turn on Dublin Canyon Road and reset the odomoter. At 0.5 miles is the first bridge. This is also the point that meets up with the roadway that was covered by the interstate.
This photo is looking back towards the spot of the first picture. The Interstate is the large berm where the road curves. The LH would have been straight at this point.
The bridge looking west. The road has been widened after the bridge to accomodate housing developments in the hills.
Close up of the Lincoln Highway marker
The construction of the culvert is quite substantial. They were built to last. Notice the drop in the creek bed. The creekbed under the culvert was also paved and the creekbed has dropped over time.
Continuing West to the 0.9 mile mark we reach the second bridge. Construction of the culvert was the same as the first bridge.
Detail of the LH marker on the second bridge
At approximately the 1.4 mile mark we reach roadbed that was constructed at the same time as the Interstate.
At 4.9 miles we reach Paloverde and turn left off of Dublin Canyon
At 5.3 miles we reach the barn that started this posting. The barn was built with round nails. On Paloverde there are a couple of old houses on the right side that may date back to the Lincoln period. Is it possible one could have been an Inn in a previous life? Unfortunately I did not have enough time to do a door to door inquiry.
At 5.7 miles Paloverde rejoins with Castro Valley Blvd.
At 6.2 miles we reach the point where East Castro Valley Blvd passes under I-580. This was the mileage point identified as the spot of the Dublin Canyon Inn.
I continued west on East Castro Valley Blvd and turned left on Five Canyons Parkway and left again on Old Dublin Rd. At the end of Old Dublin Road (Fraga) is the bridge in the photo below. Construction is very similar to the previous two bridges.
The hidden surprise is what was 75 yards north of the bridge. Up the creek and higher up the hill was another culvert. There were railings on the downhill side as if it once was roadbed but now had a couple of feet worth of dirt over top. There was a hill behind it and the Interstate on the other side. All of this is hidden on Google Earth by a grove of eucalyptus trees. Hiking around cleared my sinuses. Some of the area was private property which did limit my exploration to the creek and roadbed.
When I got home I looked on a 1949 topo map and it did show that a road was put in that cut off the lower bridge. Why is hard to tell but the culvert goes back into the hill significantly. I walked until I ran out of light and still could not see the light at the end of the tunnel. There were no dates to be found on any of the bridges I found.
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go to Google earth and spot the Old Dublin Rd stub down to Fraga Rd. Fraga is the old road, and probably the Lincoln
Fraga was were I found the third bridge!
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Now that’s what I call a great lunch break! And some great old road sleuthing.
The odds are 1000 to 1 against finding the Canyon Inn but the old garage at Altamont still exists (I think), so who knows. No matter really, you already discovered a couple of bridges. That’s not a bad lunch hour.
You are going to love the Lincoln Highway on your trip in Nevada and Utah. There isn’t a big 8 lane freeway running over the old alignment.
It should be relatively easy to fix the location of the Inn on the old USGS Topos. I haven’t looked, but the 1914 topo might even show the building since we know it existed in 1915. You can then make a good estimate of the latitude and longitude and transfer that number to Google Earth. Or eyeball it by terrain features.
In the meantime, I am going to see if Google earth has an overlay capability, where you could overlay the old topo on the Google Earth image. If not, I know you can do it in Photoshop. EDIT FOLLOWS: You can do overlays! So you can take a digital file (eg jpg, tif) of a topo and overlay it on a modern 3D Google Earth. You can even rescale the overlay to fit the scale of the Google Earth map. Outstanding! You have to hand it to the Google Earth folks! 2nd EDIT: Wow! Pull the topo jpg into photoshop and strip out the contours, then overlay the map on Google. I can now tell you exactly where the old road went, and it wasn't quite buried! In fact I think I know where the Canyon Inn might have been (speculating here). I haven't done the mileage, but go to Google earth and spot the Old Dublin Rd stub down to Fraga Rd. Fraga is the old road, and probably the Lincoln What is the facility just east on Fraga? Opps, wrong side of the road. Well, back to the maps!
Yes indeed, the old garage on the Altamont still exists.
I am going to have to play with those topo maps a bit and see what I can do.
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This picture was taken a couple of years ago in La Grange, California on CA 132.
The roofline is not the same but it does have a lot of similarities to the magazine pictures. Its also metal which would have been easier to construct than bricks (I would think).
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I noted the Canyon Inn in a 1915 Automobile Blue Book when I was looking for the Lincoln Highway Route along Paloverdes. It was located 6.2 miles west of Dublin on the right side of the road. I have copied the excerpt below.
I took a quick drive during my lunch break this afternoon in search of the Dublin Canyon Inn.
I started at Foothill Blvd. and Dublin Canyon Rd. heading west (this would be on the opposite side of the Interstate as the first notation in the Blue Book but there are 8 lanes of concrete that cover the route)
~1/2 mile west on Dublin Canyon intersects with what I suspect is the LH roadbed.
About 1/2 mile after that there is a small bridge over a culvert. The railings of the bridge are made out of concrete, painted white, and have a painted marker on each end that is red, white, and blue with an 'L' in the middle. I strongly suspect that this bridge was part of the Lincoln Highway.
I drive another 1/4 of a mile and there is another small bridge over a culvert that has concrete side railings and a painted marker on each end that is red, white, and blue with an 'L' in the middle. I can be dense sometimes but I am now convinced that I am on the right road.
In another 1/4 mile the road changes and parallels the Interstate. This road is straight and built above the small canyons that it passes by. I get to the corner of Dublin Canyon and Paloverde and turn left. Following Paloverde loops me around and back on to East Castro Valley Blvd. The 6.2 mile point on this journey is on East Castro Valley Blvd directly below I-580.
The question is; How much was the route through the canyon shortened by straightening it out? If it shortened it by a 1/2 mile or less then it is quite possible that the Inn was along the Paloverde stretch. If it shortened it by more than that then the spot of the Inn is probably under the I-580 roadboad. I doubt that it would have been any further west of this spot.
I did go a bit further west and found some other remnants buried in the Canyon. There is another bridge that is now surrounded by some houses on Old Dublin Canyon Road. I need to search through those topos that you sent the links for and see if I can figure out where the roadway went after the Paloverde stretch.
One thing I find curious in the page you scanned is the entry "(right leads to Martinez)." I would think that turning where the directions state for Danville - Walnut Creek are more appropriate to get to Martinez.
I plan on going back out this weekend and noting some exact mileages as well as taking some pictures of the two bridges. I'm not sure how I would determine the age of the barn other than carbon dating the wood and unfortunately the batteries are dead on my portable carbon dater. Any suggestions of what I should look for to determine vintage?
Rick
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I confess I would rather decipher an old alignment myself than turn to an expert. It is like treasure hunting. If you know where the treasure is hidden, half the fun is gone! Thanks for the opportunity to do a little sleuthing. Now when I get my Franswa book, I’ll see what an expert says.
You don't give yourself enough credit. I don't know what it takes to become an expert but my hat is off to you sir.
Do you want the URL for the old Topos?Yes, please!!! I would love to take a look at them and use them as a reference.
Now I’ve been down the Dublin Canyon, virtually at least! I have driven I-580 more than I want to, which is only a couple of times, and now I know where to find a probable section of the Old Lincoln. I use it sometimes on my way to Santa Clara (Olympia - Sacramento - Tracy - Santa Clara) because I consider the Livermore Canyon suicide alley.There are a few local sections that I know I have driven many, many times without knowing I was on the Lincoln. One of my favorites is the section that goes through the Altamont Pass. Now that I have learned a little more LH history I need to drive back out there and look around again. There is also a section between Mountain House and Tracy that is still driveable. There is even a piece of the highway that the aquaduct was built right on top of. You can see the roadway sticking out of the bottom of both banks of the aquaduct.
I think there was a Canyon Inn along the Dublin Canyon stretch. Do you know where?I have never heard of an Inn along Dublin Canyon, there are a couple of spots where it would not be to hard to imagine that an Inn once stood. Any other clues? It is likely that it is buried under the interstate too. Most of the canyon was torn up during construction of the Interstate and facilities to support BART so it is really hard to tell. However, there is one short stretch on the east side of the canyon that meets the criteria for the early road. You notice the change in the road as you drive it, it is much lower than the new road, and it follows a small creek.
Next time you have to make that trip to Santa Clara we will have to arrange a Lincoln exploration day trip.
Cheers,
Rick
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OK. The 1942 Topo shows US 50 cutting through the hillside north of Paloverde, leaving Paloverde as an “oxbow.” Bingo, the newer road looks down on the older, and the old road doesn’t usually go through a cut.
So far so good. I don’t know when the cut was made, but we know it was after 1915 and before 1942. And by the looks of it on Google Earth, it is quite a cut, too big in my experience for most cuts prior to the mid to late 1920’s when the Lincoln was “active.” (It is conceivable that a lesser cut carried the Lincoln, but why?)
So the next question is, did the Lincoln go through here, and if so, was it before the cut was made, and therefore via Paloverde?
Anyone in the Lincoln Highway Association of California would probably know, and I would look it up in Gregory Franzwa’s new California Lincoln Highway book, except I haven’t received my copy yet!
So back to what I do have. Somewhere around here I have the 1915 guide, but let’s settle for what I have at hand, which is a 1924 reproduction LH guide. The Lincoln Highway goes through Dublin Canyon in 1924 and there is a tiny kink in the map at about where the Paloverde road is.
So in 1924 the Lincoln Highway went through this alignment and it even looks like the 1924 map has a kink about where the dip down on what is now Paloverde occurred. My ACSC strip map from the mid 1920’s of the area shows a couple of dips, one about where Paloverde is.
So the evidence is pretty good that the Lincoln Highway went past the site of the barn (on Paloverde) for at least part of the period before the cut was made.
Obviously the better source is an authority (not me) like the detailed maps Franzwa includes in his books or the California LH Association Map. Or join the Lincoln Highway Association and get Franzwa's current write up in their magazine on the stretch between Sacramento and SF (which he promised for the Spring issue.)
What do you think?
Keep the Show on the Road!
The evidence looks convincing. I do know that the Lincoln Highway passed through the Dublin Canyon on its way towards Hayward, Oakland, and eventually San Francisco. The topography of the canyon itself has been changed considerably but the section around Paloverde has not been touched. Visually looking at the area the Paloverde route required no cuts to be made and would have been the easiest route going back to the days of horse and wagons.
The Dublin Canyon connected the agricultural region of the San Ramon Valley with the larger cities of the Eastbay (Oakland, Hayward) and it is completely plausible to me that Paloverde was once a wagon road before being put into service as an auto route.
Slightly to the west of the posted map I recall an old road intersecting with Castro Valley Blvd. If I recall correctly it was called Old Dublin Blvd and we used to ride it on our bicyles down to the bottom of the canyon and then met up again with Castro Valley Blvd. after going through some brush. That road has since been covered over by 580. The top of the road may have been paved over when they built an access road to some houses on the south side of 580.
I have read that there are a few other small sections of the Lincoln on the East side of the canyon that I intend to look into very soon. One is a curved piece of road that is now in a parking lot alongside Dublin Blvd. There is also a LH museum 15 miles to east in Livermore that I have to get to as well.
Another bit of trivia that is not really relevent to this topic but just to the west of the map, on the south side of 580 there is a large berm stretching for about 1/2 a mile. That berm is made up of the remains of the collapsed Cypress Structure that fell during the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake. Every time I drive by it I can't help looking at it and thinking that it is one huge grave.
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I have a question for the LH experts.
I am trying to determine if the barn pictured below and the road that runs in front of it were on the Lincoln Highway. The location is in the Dublin Canyon just east of Castro Valley, California. On the map the barn is at the corner of Paloverde and Palomares (near the bottom-middle, highlighted in yellow).
At the top of the map is Interstate 580. This section of 580 was built in the early 80's and the section shown cuts through a small hill (note drainage on north side)
Just below 580 is the old roadbed for US50/580 that was used until the 8 lanes of the Interstate was completed. I have highlighted the old road bed in red. I do not know when it was built since it was there since I can remember.
Paralleling the old roadbed is East Castro Valley Blvd. This roadboad sits lower than the former 4 lane roadbed that it parallels and may have required making some cuts in the hill when constructed. Brian Butko's book lists this as the Lincoln Highway but I am wondering if the section between the two ends of Paloverde might have been built when US 50 was built and that the Lincoln might have followed the roadbed that is now Paloverde Rd?
Unfortunately I do not have anything detailed enough that shows this section of the Lincoln.
Any ideas?
Life is a trip, Enjoy the journey
Rick
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Is it an addiction or an obsession? Does it matter?
As a kid all of our family vacations were driving trips typically from our home in California north to either British Columbia or Saskatchewan. During these long trips their wasn't much for my brother and I to do except annoy each other or stare out the windows at the sights along the road. I have vague memories of driving two lanes roads alongside much larger roads that weren't yet completed and seeing the earth moving equipment at work.
I remember one time when I must have been 6 or 7 years old driving north on the newly built I-5 and going from the new wide section of I-5 back to US99W and back to I-5 a number of times. Of course I had no clue that the roads even had a number back then. Years later when I drove the same road and looked at the two lane road paralleling the Interstate the memories of being in the backseat of a 1967 Chrysler Town & Country Station Wagon came flooding back.
Fast Forward to the late 80's and my wife and I are coming back from visiting friends in Sante Fe and I spot the Historic Route 66 marker near Seligman. I take the exit and for the first time drive the stretch of road between Seligman and Kingman. I was hooked then.
Ever since my first drive on Route 66 I have made a conscious effort to plan road trips that require, or at least have the option of, driving on the two lane highways. Both of my children (ages 10 & 14) have gotten used to being on the backroads, in fact they look forward to it. I try to leave as much of the electronic entertainment at home as I can get away with but I do recognize that a DVD player can come in handy when you do have to drive the Interstate. I want them to see the country they are passing through, not the screen on a gameboy that looks the same no matter where you are.
For 11 years from the mid 80's to about 1997 I had a job as a Field Service Engineer with a territory that covered quite a bit of Central California. I drove many, many miles up and down CA 99 between Sacramento and Bakersfield. As you drive a road hundreds of times you begin to notice things like how the highway will jog one way or another before getting to a town and then jog back on the other side or the dates that an overpass was built. The more I saw the more I wondered about the evolution of the road itself, when it was built, and how it affected the towns it formerly went through.
This summer instead of driving the two lane highways to get to a destination I plan on driving the road for the sake of driving the road. Sometime in July my father, son, and myself will be trace the Central Pacific Railway and Victory Highway from the California\Nevada border to Promontory Point in Utah and then follow the Lincoln Highway back from Evanston to Carson City. I am hoping that the trip will be a great bonding experience between three generations as we travel together but also give my son an appreciation for the history associated with the places we will see.
Life is a trip, enjoy the Journey
Rick
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I understood the monument was covered by weeds. Granted, it wasn’t exactly enshrined, but it looks good.
Let's Keep the Show on the Road!
The monument looked to be in great shape. No signs of tagging on it or the plaque next to it. In retrospect it probably is in the best location. It is just off of the road that would have been the LH, its near where the original marker was places, its easily visible if you know where to look, and its right next to the bus stop where people waiting for the bus can get a history lesson at the same time. It would be good if somebody pulled out the the weeds once in awhile.
I just started reading the book in the proper East to West direction, and have not yet hit the PA sections that I have driven. That was about 8 years ago and probably was the reason that I began to fall in love with the American two-lane.It seems to me like most guidebooks on cross country travel books that I have read are written east to west, I suppose it is because that was the migration path as the country moved west. I have lived in the San Francisco Bay Area all of my life and while I knew that the Lincoln and Victory highways ended here and though I occasionally wondered if an old looking bridge was part of one of those roads I have only recently begun to look seriously for remnants of those old roads. The LH passed 5 miles south of were I currently live and through the town that I grew up in, although I was unaware of it at the time. I probably rode my bike on sections of the road without knowing it. Unfortunately there has been so much urbanization here in the last 70 years that little is as it was back then. I will keep searching and sharing what I find.
Life is a Trip, Enjoy the Journey
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Last week I recieved my copy of Brian Butko's "Greetings from the Lincoln Highway" and began reading it. Since I live on the West Coast I am starting at the back and working my way forwards through each state. I happened to be in San Francisco last Saturday and realized I was not far from where the Lincoln Highway terminous marker that was placed in 2002 at the Legion of Honor in Lincoln Park. I did find the marker on the southeast corner of the parking lot in the weeds, overlooking the golf course, next to a Muni bus stop.
Enjoy the Journey
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Helpful!! Usually Main Street, while the road beside the railroad was Front Street if it didn't have railraod in its name.
Thanks RoadDod! I appreciate it! And Keep the Show on the Road!
Thanks, this has been extremely helpful.
Another thing that I look for to help to determine the age of the road is to check for a year stamped in the concrete of a bridge or overcrossing. Sometimes the year can be painted on as well, especially in more recent construction. It may not be completely accurate since a bridge can be built after a roadway is in place but it might help in estimating when a road was put into service.
Rick
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Whenever my better half drags me into an antique store I try to make the most of it and on occasion have been able to find a decent map or two. I've been able to find a few pre-1930's roadmaps of Southern and Northern California as well as a 1941 State Farm Inurance Road Atlas. I refer to the State Farm Atlas constantly as it has all the 48 states. The detail is about the same as what you would get with a modern day Rand McNally road atlas. It is in great shape and I only paid $20 for it.
Rick
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If you were president of an oil company and your profits skyrocketed when demand was high and production was restricted, would you build new capacity with your profits? Not if you wanted to keep your multimillion dollar salary!
I’m just a dummy. but even I know what makes the world go round. This is a closed market. New companies don’t enter the market and compete with the existing companies to drive prices down. There has not been a new oil refinery built in 30 years (says the article). The big boys don’t have to sit around a table and fix prices, they all know what is in their best interest.
In the long run we will acquire more fuel efficient vehicles and high prices at the pump will make alternative sources of energy to move our vehicles more viable. We could be enjoying some interesting changes in vehicles over the next decade. I’m already noticing those little scooter cars on our streets. (Does anyone remember the Crosley?) But for now, count on more of the same.
Would someone please tell me I’m wrong and explain why.
Keep the Show on the Road
I can't find any flaws in your logic. I have no idea how long it takes to recover the cost on a refinery but I would imagine that it is spread out over many years. Why invest in a new refinery when things are working out just fine the way they are? The talk of alternative fuels would decrease the incentive to build a refinery even more.
The true downside of higher gas prices is the affect it will have on the entire economy. Paying more at the pump will mean maybe a few less movies a year, shorter road trips that will have an impact on the lodging and resturaunt industry, more weekends at home, holding off on purchasing that new camera, etc.etc.
Rick
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We started the day in Kingman and after breakfast made a brief stop at the Powerhouse on Andy Devine Blvd. (across from the park with the large locomotive in it) to view the museum. I highly recommend this museum as a stopping point. It gives a great history of the road and its predecessors. One of the most haunting parts of the display for me was some of the black and white images from the Oklahoma migration in the 30's. The photographs were exceptionally well done and really conveyed the sense of desparation that those folks must have had back then. I've read The Grapes of Wrath a couple of times but those photos tell nearly as much as Steinbeck could.
Back on the road we headed west towards Oatman. One pleasant surprise was the rebuilt store at Cool Springs. Last time I had driven through was 3 or 4 years ago and all I recall was a pair of rock pillars on the site. It also looked as if the cabins were being rebuilt. The new owners have done a tremendous amount of work and I hope they are successful.
Cool Springs-Amazing Reconstruction
A little further on down Oatman Road was Ed's Camp. One of the guidebooks I read described Ed's Camp as a photographer's nightmare with so many objects to take pictures of without a sense of space to frame them in. I settled for a snapshot from the road as we continued westward.
Ed's Camp
The part of the road through Sitgreaves Pass was a tough part of the trip for my 10 year old daughter. She was suffering from a bit of motion sickness so we put her up in the front seat as I drove slowly around the curves. I've never had the opportunity to drive this road in anything smaller than a minivan or pickup truck but it seems like it would be a lot of fun in a sports car.
West Side of Sitgreaves Pass
Heading into Oatman my daughter pepped right up when she saw the donkeys walking all over the town. I let her and my wife out as my son and I drove through town and parked our vehicle. As my son and I walked back into town we saw my wife and daughter being followed by a herd of donkeys. As we neared them we saw that they were both carrying a bag of carrots that had the donkeys interest. Not to be outdone my son bought a bag of carrots and soon had his own parade of donkeys behind him.
We spent the better part of an hour in Oatman looking through the shops and feeding the donkeys. We also timed our visit just right and got to witness the gunfight in the middle of the street.
Oatman Local
Gunfight on the Oatman Streets
We were soon back on the road heading towards Needles and after a quick lunch were back on the Interstate heading westward. Time was beginning to be a concern again and as much as I would have liked to detour through Goffs we also wanted to tour Mitchell Caverns. Unfortunately after rushing through the desert we got to the caverns before the tour started but were told that it was full. Next time we will reserve a spot before we get there. We did go a bit further north into Mojave National Park to the Hole in the Wall and hiked for an hour or so before heading back towards 66.
We rejoined Route 66 at Essex and continued our journey westward toward Amboy. I have driven this stretch of road 3 or 4 times before and it is up there among my favorites. Very few cars and 2 lanes of blacktop. There are a few stops that I would recommend the traveler to stop and explore along the way. There are some ruins at Cadiz Summit as well as the Roadrunners Retreat a little further west towards Amboy.
Roadrunners Retreat
Heading towards Amboy there is a tree on the south side of the road that looks innocent enough until you get closer. When we got near we noticed that there were dozens of pairs of shoes that look like they had been thrown into the tree. I don't know what the tradition is behind the shoes in the tree but it was interesting.
Route 66 and the Shoe Tree
Inside the Shoe Tree
The most noticeable location in Amboy is Roy's. The last time I was through here there was activity at Roy's but they definitely weren't welcoming. This time around the area was open with a number of RV's parked in the area. I'm not sure if it was some sort of RV gathering or perhaps a film crew but it was good to see that there was activity there.
Roy's
We followed Route 66 and just before sunset arrived at the small town of Ludlow. I recalled that the movie "Bagdad Cafe" was shot there but could not recall any of the buildings well enough to know which ones were used in the movie. We rejoined the Interstate in Ludlow and continued west toward Barstow. The section between Ludlow and Barstow would have to wait for another time as the sun was setting fast and our destination for the evening was Bakersfield and home the following day.
Some Ghost Signage in Ludlow.
I did manage to drive down Main Street in Barstow before heading further west on CA 58. I know I posted the photo below on another thread but I felt it was a fitting way to wrap up this journey.
End of the Road in Barstow
Enjoy the Journey!
Victory Highway Question; Eastern Nevada & Utah
in U.S. Highways & Auto Trails
Posted
Thanks KtSotR! As usual the information that you have at your fingertips never ceases to amaze me. I will now have to spend some time and match up the locations with a present day map.
Our destination on Day 2 is to drive the Transcontintental Railroad. When the Southern Pacific RR built their causeway across the Great Salt Lake they left a 90 mile section between Lucin and Promontory unused. This original section of the Transcontinentaly RR includes the section were the record of 10 miles of track was laid in a single day.
(Amazing Side Note: The day that 10 miles of track were laid each man that was responsible for carrying the rails carried the equivelent of 123 tons of rail each! )
The tracks were removed in 1942 and now 90 mile drive is possible along the railroad grade.
More info:
http://www.ut.blm.gov/recsite/otherpages/central.html
The way things are looking now is that we will leave the Interstate in Wells, follow the PPOO as much as possible to Montello, and then catch the Transcontintental railbed near Lucin. Should be a good days drive.
Last time we passed through Wells we stopped and walked along the road facing the railroad tracks and then went a few miles Northwest and had lunch in Metropolis. There's not much left there, and we had to bring our own lunch, but how many people can actually say they've been to Metropolis?
All that remains of Metropolis is the foundation of the bank and high school. No sign of Superman.
Roadhound