Guest Bakerhab@aol.com Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 What is it about this time of the year that makes yahoo groups go wild? Take a look at the message tallies for summer 2003. Was that the time when we were debating whether the Hampton Caravan was good or bad for the road, or was it, who should or should not, have gotten signs, or was that the debate over the term 'American Owned,' I can't remember? Can any of you remember what was redlining our tachometers a year ago? This summer we are being 'polled' out of our minds over an issue that there will never be agreement on, or so it would seem. I wish that I could demand that there be a moratorium on the topic of recertification, but as a group member who has causes of her own, I have to respect every other group member's "right to write." I do have one favor to ask though, please don't let this topic cause us to lose track of all of the other activities and events going on during this time along the road. Specifically, for me at least, can we please keep track of our 'erstwhile Okie,' Brian McKay? I know that he has already passed many of you, but some of us are still waiting for him to come into view. So please keep posting any 1930 Nash sightings, and I'll sift through the messages and look for any crumbs that you toss my way. Thanks, and yes, I do have a position on the question du jour, but I shouldn't have to write about it for any of you who have met me to know what it is. Did I vote, for what it's worth, yes I did. I realize that I'm taking a risk by offending those on both sides of the debate by posting this message, but all I want to know is simply, WHERE'S BRIAN MCKAY? Thank you, Helen Baker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mike shadman Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 A lot of US Routes are exciting too! 66 is boring in some places like the Texas Panhandle. You can take exciting trips on almost any US Route and have a continous designated highway. 66 isn't, it's small segments here and there. You need a well mark continous route. rt66roadologist@comcast.net wrote:Fred aslong as it says 66 it will be stolen.Fer like some have said it time you hit the road and take a trip down(and get some kicks) the highway and see it as it is today befor you go any farther.Redeantion will NEVER happen.If it did the old road bed would be destoded in favor of a boring 2 or 4lane highway where then did this get us.Jeff Meyer -------------- Original message -------------- > I'm not sure that the brown and white "Historic" signs that > Missouri, Illinois and a few other states have installed are truly > considered to be full-fledged traffic control devices. They might > be commorative in nature only. > > I have also wonder about the laws that deal with someone defacing or > stealing a legal traffic control sign (Like a U.S. 71 shield, for > example) and the historic brown and white markers. Would there be a > difference? Does anybody know? > > Also, would there be a difference between the replacement rates when > someone steals a sign like a U.S. 71 shield or an I-44 shield or > even a speed limit sign, for that matter, and the historic markers? > > Again, I don't know. Does anyone else know? > > -Fred > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "brownwho63" > wrote: > > Missouri '66 wouldn't be nearly as confusing if we could only > *keep* > > the historic signs in place. Once stolen (and that's happening at > an > > alarming rate) it takes MoDot years to replace them, if ever. > They > > say that they do a "sweep" every three or four years to determine > > where signs need to be replaced but I can't believe that's a > priority > > for them. For example, there are missing signs on 100, Manchester > > Road in Des Peres (westbound lanes), County AH east crossover > > (eastbound lane - stolen several years ago), County AH crossover > > (westbound), Stanton crossover (both east and westbound), and, I'm > > certain, more than I can currently recall. The only signs > remaining > > at these sites are the directional arrows originally installed > with > > the brown and white signs. We noticed recently, though, that some > > enterprising souls placed two separate Historic Route 66 stickers > on > > the arrow just east of St. Clair. I suppose that some fool will > > steal that too. Have we reached the point where the shield just > > needs to painted on the road surface like we've seen in KS? > > Sigh....Bliss > > > > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Rudyard Welborn" > > wrote: > > > There is no doubt that there needs to be more "historic route" > 66 > > signs all > > > up and down the route; in parts of Missouri and OK, you need to > > have a book > > > (Jim Ross for OK, Skip Curtis for MO) to find your way. Maps are > > > problematic because most I have seen are not detailed enough to > > show you > > > where all the twists and turns are, much less the old alignments > > and patches > > > of old roadbed you find along the way...What Illinois has done > to > > mark the > > > route should be the model for all the states...know that is not > > cheap and > > > that the states along the route have other priorities but that's > my > > > dream...I don't support any kind of recertification or > restatement > > of Route > > > 66. Tsingtao, Kip > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "rwarn17588" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 3:41 AM > > > Subject: [AMERICAN_ROAD] Re: Reinventing Route 66 > > > > > > > > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > > > > > Fred is supporting the signage of US66 and/or possibly > Historic > > > > Route > > > > > 66, uniformly for the entire route. This promotion of > awareness > > > > does > > > > > not necessarily need to be a campaign to reinstate the route > as > > an > > > > > official US highway. Of course as you've mentioned, the > latter > > > > would > > > > > certainly create destruction by the process of upgrading the > > > > roadbed > > > > > to current highway standards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Landrunner, except that Fred's Web site states the > > unequivocal > > > > goal of reinstating U.S. 66, which includes the interstates. > The > > Web > > > > site is called Route 66 Re-commissioning Initiative. Fred may > say > > > > one thing, but his site and actions say another. > > > > > > > > Ron Warnick > > > > Tulsa, OK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit our homepage at: http://www.mockturtlepress.com > > > > > > > > To subscribe to AMERICAN ROAD magazine, PHONE TOLL-FREE 1-877- > 285- > > 5434 > > > WITH YOUR ORDER TODAY! > > > > Or send payment to: Mock Turtle Press, PO Box 3168, Lynnwood, > WA > > > 98046-3168 > > > > SUBSCRIPTION RATES: > > > > 1 year (4 issues) for $15.95 > > > > (save $3.85 off the newsstand price!) > > > > 2 years (8 issues) for $27.95 > > > > (save $11.65 off the newsstand price!) > > > > > > > > > > > > For questions about the list, contact: AMERICAN_ROAD- > > owner@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > To SUBSCRIBE to this group, send an email to: > > > AMERICAN_ROAD-subscribe@y... POST a message via e-mail, send it > > > to: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit our homepage at: http://www.mockturtlepress.com > > To subscribe to AMERICAN ROAD magazine, PHONE TOLL-FREE 1-877-285-5434 WITH YOUR > ORDER TODAY! > Or send payment to: Mock Turtle Press, PO Box 3168, Lynnwood, WA 98046-3168 > SUBSCRIPTION RATES: > 1 year (4 issues) for $15.95 > (save $3.85 off the newsstand price!) > 2 years (8 issues) for $27.95 > (save $11.65 off the newsstand price!) > > > For questions about the list, contact: AMERICAN_ROAD-owner@yahoogroups.com > > To SUBSCRIBE to this group, send an email to: > AMERICAN_ROAD-subscribe@yahoogroups.comTo POST a message via e-mail, send it to: > AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Visit our homepage at: http://www.mockturtlepress.com To subscribe to AMERICAN ROAD magazine, PHONE TOLL-FREE 1-877-285-5434 WITH YOUR ORDER TODAY! Or send payment to: Mock Turtle Press, PO Box 3168, Lynnwood, WA 98046-3168 SUBSCRIPTION RATES: 1 year (4 issues) for $15.95 (save $3.85 off the newsstand price!) 2 years (8 issues) for $27.95 (save $11.65 off the newsstand price!) For questions about the list, contact: AMERICAN_ROAD-owner@yahoogroups.com To SUBSCRIBE to this group, send an email to: AMERICAN_ROAD-subscribe@yahoogroups.comTo POST a message via e-mail, send it to: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AMERICAN_ROAD/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: AMERICAN_ROAD-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Gassmann Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Just a reminder: Sunday, July 11 is the 6th annual World's Largest Catsup Bottle Summerfest Birthday Party Bash in downtown Collinsville, Illinois. Help celebrate as the world-famous Brooks catsup bottle water tower is 55 and still alive! What could be better than a tasty red, white, and blue summertime party for this historic mid-20th century roadside landmark? Hope to see you there! For a complete schedule of events including Sauce Magazine's Tangy Catsup Taste Test, the ceremonial cutting of the Fitz's Root Beer birthday cake, and the free old-fashioned birthday party games log on to: http://www.catsupbottlesummerfest.com Interested in the C.I.A. Classic Car Show? Log on to: http://www.catsupbottlesummerfest.com/events/car_show.shtml My vine-ripened Big Tomato picks: Trailnet's Big Bottle Bike Ride (8:00) Little Sir Catsup & Princess Tomato Pageant (11:30) Rams Cheerleaders (12:00) Hula Hoop competition (2:00) Wilderness Village Encampment (all weekend at library) Steve Davis "Elvis" & TCB Band (6:30) Thank you to each and every one of our partnership sponsors: http://www.catsupbottlesummerfest.com/spon...sors_main.shtml Ketch-up with y'all later! Mike Gassmann, Big Tomato Judy DeMoisy, The Catsup Bottle Lady Downtown Collinsville, Inc. 216 East Main Street Collinsville, Illinois 62234 618-345-5598 phone 618-345-5699 fax bigtomato@catsupbottle.com www.catsupbottle.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mike shadman Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Goodday Jennifer: You probadly don't know me but I'm the other main person to get old 66 re-commission as a US designated highway. Fred has good thoughts but some of is ideals come from me too. He has his own plan on re-designation, but mine is different from his. We have made great strides with this Initiative. Example: Some 66 associations would like to see it happen, many of the public, some DOT members, and it has been discussed in Congress. A very big Washington lobbyist is interested in the ideal. I read and know where a lot of you are coming from and I agree with most of the 66ers about there suggestions. Preservation,Tourism,Events, and some travel along the old road isn't going to save it total for the businesses and the old road over all. You need some kind of continuous and improved route. My plan in short form is to use old alignments that will not destroy a lot of historic value and use new alignments where it can be feasible. 66ers live fear that re-commissioning 66 is destroy the whole highway, not so, that why they have meeting on highway Initiatives before they take any action. You say if the Feds get involved that would destroy thing. A lot of your initiatives cost a lot of money, you going need the Federal Government sometime in the future. To many 66ers have a closed mind regarding re-commissioning of 66, they should open up, I include my efforts on preserving the old too! George the person Behind the scenes for re-commissioning. Jennifer <jabremer66@aol.com> wrote: > If what we really want to do is to limit traffic to preverve older > pieces of pavement for all time, that's a worthy goal. If we want > to direct MORE traffic onto the old road in order to improve the > business chances of older businesses like the Boots Motel, then that > is also a very worthy goal. Trouble is, I can see these two goals > as being in conflict with each other, and quite frankly, I'm not > sure how to address that. It seems to me that some kind of a > compramise will need to be reached. > > I cannot see restaurants and motels along with roadside tourist > places and the chambers of commerce that represent them as backing a > preservation intiative that doesn't have a good piece of the pie for > them. I think you explained yourself pretty well this time Fred. I see where you're heading with this, and I also see what everyone wants to avoid too. You're right, Fred. Saving the businesses by increasing traffic, *could* in turn, lose the roadbed itself. And what is more important? Personally, I think they both are important, and any plan that could do *both* would be the best of both worlds. If such a plan is possible...I think everyone else is right too, to keep the road preserved as much as possible, but increase traffic with Historic or Scenic byway designation. I think the positive things Fred is trying to accomplish are: - Increase awareness for Route 66 for the general public and hopefully encourage people to travel on Route 66 (rather than the interstate) and thus, support the businesses along the Route. Clearly, the businesses on Route 66 would have a tough time surviving solely from a small group of road warriors like us (of course, there's a lot more folks than just us traveling the Route!). It would be better if more people didn't think of road travel as travel on the monotonous interstate with periodic stops at the generic "travel plaza" and an overnight stay at the Ramada Inn at the interchange. - Accomplish increased awareness by Historic or Scenic designation, increased and consistent signage, directional turns. On that note, I see where you (Fred) want to have Route 66 designated as 66 again. Call it re-commissioned, whatever. But....as others have mentioned, if you get the federal government involved as a commissioned highway, you could be subjecting the road (itself) to be straightened, widened, whatever. We don't want that...just increased traffic so that the businesses will benefit. Of course, Ken's right, too...through the course of time, the road will need to be repaired anyway. But why hasten that process by getting the Federal government involved? I think that all the suggestions here have been good ones: get historic 66 on more maps where possible, increase signage...it's already on some parts of Mapquest and A LOT in Microsoft Streets and Trips. I'm curious though, (and this is a random thought for discussion, not an actual idea for anyone to do): what steps could be made to promote a journey on Route 66 and other U.S. Highways from a marketing standpoint - highway travel as a vacation destination in itself? I think American Road itself is an entire campaign to do just that, which is helpful. I know there's associations, American Road and Route 66 magazine, websites, etc...but they would have to be sought out by people who are interested in finding out more, and all that stuff preaches to the choir - we already love traveling old roads, so we seek out this information. I'm wondering how to reach out TO the "general public" on a national level about the pleasure of two lane road travel? Anytime anyone has a tourist destination or a product to sell, they advertise – push their product. Unfortunately, I know marketing firms and ad campaigns are expensive, but it would be an interesting "theory" (repeat, I said "theory") if all the associations (and/or Route 66 businesses all along the Route) could band together, and pool resources and hire a marketing firm to advertise Route 66 in magazines, television, radio like any other tourist destination or product. I know, of course, that you need some serious cash to do this and with the associations nonprofit, and businesses needing every dollar they can to survivie, that this isn't possible. But as I said, it would be an interesting idea to turn on the radio and hear an ad about Route 66, like you do with all the other tourist destinations. So, I'm next thinking about the tourism departments of the 8 states? I'm always hearing Michigan commercials, or seeing them on TV! States are always doing tourism commercials and they have the money to do it. I'll bet if the states did big ad campaigns and featured Route 66, that would help businesses. I'm sure Historic and scenic designation would help that too. The Illinois state travel guide had a section on Route 66 before. Anyway, this post was just some random thoughts I had. I think there's some good ideas kicking around, but between all the message boards that this tread is circulating on, it's all talk, no action. It's interesting reading, but if anything would ever get done, a group would have to be formed to create a specific plan of action, assemble a list of contacts, asiign tasks and start implementing some of these ideas (something like David Knudson's action team). Jennifer Visit our homepage at: http://www.mockturtlepress.com To subscribe to AMERICAN ROAD magazine, PHONE TOLL-FREE 1-877-285-5434 WITH YOUR ORDER TODAY! Or send payment to: Mock Turtle Press, PO Box 3168, Lynnwood, WA 98046-3168 SUBSCRIPTION RATES: 1 year (4 issues) for $15.95 (save $3.85 off the newsstand price!) 2 years (8 issues) for $27.95 (save $11.65 off the newsstand price!) For questions about the list, contact: AMERICAN_ROAD-owner@yahoogroups.com To SUBSCRIBE to this group, send an email to: AMERICAN_ROAD-subscribe@yahoogroups.comTo POST a message via e-mail, send it to: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AMERICAN_ROAD/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: AMERICAN_ROAD-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bakerhab@aol.com Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Subj: RE: 1930 Nash update on California plans Date: 6/30/2004 12:32:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time From: kronk22@hotmail.com To: Bakerhab@aol.com Met Brian at the 66 Diner here in Albuquerque a bit ago...gave him your message, Jim, and thereby yours too, Helen. We're having dinner tonight, not at the Diner probably...they bought his lunch today and, as apparently usual, he got a lot of attention. I took some pics, will e- them later. Jim, you should expect to hear from him by phone if you haven't already, and Helen, I'm sure Jim will relay everything to you. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ken Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Hi Mike, Seems there are two groups of people. One group who wouldn't want the Mother Road recommisioned back to life as it was, while the other group who wishes to keep it preserved as it is. Now, here's a tricky question which some folk's answer may contradict their very own beliefs: Who would have liked it if Route 66 would have never been decommissioned in the first place? Commissioned or decommissioned, many parts of the old road will eventually need repair. Those repairs will NEVER be in the form of the old road standards of 1926. Take for example, the bypassed Old Highway 66 stretch that Jim Ross lives on. It is literally falling apart at the seams with awful looking chunks of pot hole filling asphalt as a low funded cheapie make shift style of repair. Some folks insist on preservation in this form only. That stretch has been abused by the heavy machinery trucks that pass through there while building the houses along that stretch of road. When the time comes to make a proper repair to that road, I guarantee you that those repairs will destroy the original roadbed anyway. If not, then the Mother Road will eventually return back into the Mother Earth and become a dirt two track trail, as many 66 portions have already experienced. (Of course, the historians of the old pioneer wagon trails would love to see that happen, no doubt). God Bless and Happy Trails. the landrunner <http://www.postmarkart.com/links.htm> --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, mike shadman <mike_shadman@y...> wrote: > Goodday Jennifer: > You probadly don't know me but I'm the other main person to get old 66 re-commission as a US designated highway. Fred has good thoughts but some of is ideals come from me too. He has his own plan on re- designation, but mine is different from his. We have made great strides with this Initiative. Example: Some 66 associations would like to see it happen, many of the public, some DOT members, and it has been discussed in Congress. A very big Washington lobbyist is interested in the ideal. I read and know where a lot of you are coming from and I agree with most of the 66ers about there suggestions. Preservation,Tourism,Events, and some travel along the old road isn't going to save it total for the businesses and the old road over all. You need some kind of continuous and improved route. My plan in short form is to use old alignments that will not destroy a lot of historic value and use new alignments where it can be feasible. 66ers live fear that re-commissioning 66 is destroy the whole > highway, not so, that why they have meeting on highway Initiatives before they take any action. You say if the Feds get involved that would destroy thing. A lot of your initiatives cost a lot of money, you going need the Federal Government sometime in the future. To many 66ers have a closed mind regarding re-commissioning of 66, they should open up, I include my efforts on preserving the old too! > > George the person Behind the scenes for re-commissioning. > > Jennifer <jabremer66@a...> wrote: > > If what we really want to do is to limit traffic to preverve older > > pieces of pavement for all time, that's a worthy goal. If we want > > to direct MORE traffic onto the old road in order to improve the > > business chances of older businesses like the Boots Motel, then > that > is also a very worthy goal. Trouble is, I can see these two > goals > as being in conflict with each other, and quite frankly, I'm > not > sure how to address that. It seems to me that some kind of a > > compramise will need to be reached. > > > > I cannot see restaurants and motels along with roadside tourist > > places and the chambers of commerce that represent them as backing > a > preservation intiative that doesn't have a good piece of the pie > for > > them. > > > I think you explained yourself pretty well this time Fred. I see > where you're heading with this, and I also see what everyone wants to > avoid too. You're right, Fred. Saving the businesses by increasing > traffic, *could* in turn, lose the roadbed itself. And what is more > important? Personally, I think they both are important, and any plan > that could do *both* would be the best of both worlds. If such a > plan is possible...I think everyone else is right too, to keep the > road preserved as much as possible, but increase traffic with > Historic or Scenic byway designation. > > I think the positive things Fred is trying to accomplish are: > > - Increase awareness for Route 66 for the general public and > hopefully encourage people to travel on Route 66 (rather than the > interstate) and thus, support the businesses along the Route. > Clearly, the businesses on Route 66 would have a tough time surviving > solely from a small group of road warriors like us (of course, > there's a lot more folks than just us traveling the Route!). It would > be better if more people didn't think of road travel as travel on the > monotonous interstate with periodic stops at the generic "travel > plaza" and an overnight stay at the Ramada Inn at the interchange. > - Accomplish increased awareness by Historic or Scenic > designation, increased and consistent signage, directional turns. > > On that note, I see where you (Fred) want to have Route 66 designated > as 66 again. Call it re-commissioned, whatever. But....as others > have mentioned, if you get the federal government involved as a > commissioned highway, you could be subjecting the road (itself) to be > straightened, widened, whatever. We don't want that...just increased > traffic so that the businesses will benefit. Of course, Ken's right, > too...through the course of time, the road will need to be repaired > anyway. But why hasten that process by getting the Federal > government involved? I think that all the suggestions here have been > good ones: get historic 66 on more maps where possible, increase > signage...it's already on some parts of Mapquest and A LOT in > Microsoft Streets and Trips. > > I'm curious though, (and this is a random thought for discussion, not > an actual idea for anyone to do): what steps could be made to promote > a journey on Route 66 and other U.S. Highways from a marketing > standpoint - highway travel as a vacation destination in itself? I > think American Road itself is an entire campaign to do just that, > which is helpful. I know there's associations, American Road and > Route 66 magazine, websites, etc...but they would have to be sought > out by people who are interested in finding out more, and all that > stuff preaches to the choir - we already love traveling old roads, so > we seek out this information. > > I'm wondering how to reach out TO the "general public" on a national > level about the pleasure of two lane road travel? Anytime anyone has > a tourist destination or a product to sell, they advertise – push > their product. Unfortunately, I know marketing firms and ad > campaigns are expensive, but it would be an interesting "theory" > (repeat, I said "theory") if all the associations (and/or Route 66 > businesses all along the Route) could band together, and pool > resources and hire a marketing firm to advertise Route 66 in > magazines, television, radio like any other tourist destination or > product. I know, of course, that you need some serious cash to do > this and with the associations nonprofit, and businesses needing > every dollar they can to survivie, that this isn't possible. But as > I said, it would be an interesting idea to turn on the radio and hear > an ad about Route 66, like you do with all the other tourist > destinations. > > So, I'm next thinking about the tourism departments of the 8 states? > I'm always hearing Michigan commercials, or seeing them on TV! States > are always doing tourism commercials and they have the money to do > it. I'll bet if the states did big ad campaigns and featured Route > 66, that would help businesses. I'm sure Historic and scenic > designation would help that too. The Illinois state travel guide had > a section on Route 66 before. > > Anyway, this post was just some random thoughts I had. I think > there's some good ideas kicking around, but between all the message > boards that this tread is circulating on, it's all talk, no action. > It's interesting reading, but if anything would ever get done, a > group would have to be formed to create a specific plan of action, > assemble a list of contacts, asiign tasks and start implementing some > of these ideas (something like David Knudson's action team). > > Jennifer > > > > Visit our homepage at: http://www.mockturtlepress.com > > To subscribe to AMERICAN ROAD magazine, PHONE TOLL-FREE 1-877-285- 5434 WITH YOUR ORDER TODAY! > Or send payment to: Mock Turtle Press, PO Box 3168, Lynnwood, WA 98046-3168 > SUBSCRIPTION RATES: > 1 year (4 issues) for $15.95 > (save $3.85 off the newsstand price!) > 2 years (8 issues) for $27.95 > (save $11.65 off the newsstand price!) > > > For questions about the list, contact: AMERICAN_ROAD- owner@yahoogroups.com > > To SUBSCRIBE to this group, send an email to: AMERICAN_ROAD- subscribe@y... POST a message via e-mail, send it to: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AMERICAN_ROAD/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > AMERICAN_ROAD-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! > > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ~Ron Kendall~ Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Lady Liberty Fireworks ~ron~ ----- Original Message ----- From: ~Ron Kendall~ To: Ron C. Kendall Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 11:11 AM Subject: lady liberty Using your mouse, click in the sky above NYC. © http://doody36.home.attbi.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fred M. Cain Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 A different perspective on my thoughts. Thanks Mike! -Fred --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, mike shadman <mike_shadman@y...> wrote: > Goodday Jennifer: > You probadly don't know me but I'm the other main person to get old 66 re-commission as a US designated highway. Fred has good thoughts but some of is ideals come from me too. He has his own plan on re-designation, but mine is different from his. We have made great strides with this Initiative. Example: Some 66 associations would like to see it happen, many of the public, some DOT members, and it has been discussed in Congress. A very big Washington lobbyist is interested in the ideal. I read and know where a lot of you are coming from and I agree with most of the 66ers about there suggestions. Preservation,Tourism,Events, and some travel along the old road isn't going to save it total for the businesses and the old road over all. You need some kind of continuous and improved route. My plan in short form is to use old alignments that will not destroy a lot of historic value and use new alignments where it can be feasible. 66ers live fear that re-commissioning 66 is destroy the whole > highway, not so, that why they have meeting on highway Initiatives before they take any action. You say if the Feds get involved that would destroy thing. A lot of your initiatives cost a lot of money, you going need the Federal Government sometime in the future. To many 66ers have a closed mind regarding re-commissioning of 66, they should open up, I include my efforts on preserving the old too! > > George the person Behind the scenes for re-commissioning. > > Jennifer <jabremer66@a...> wrote: > > If what we really want to do is to limit traffic to preverve older > > pieces of pavement for all time, that's a worthy goal. If we want > > to direct MORE traffic onto the old road in order to improve the > > business chances of older businesses like the Boots Motel, then > that > is also a very worthy goal. Trouble is, I can see these two > goals > as being in conflict with each other, and quite frankly, I'm > not > sure how to address that. It seems to me that some kind of a > > compramise will need to be reached. > > > > I cannot see restaurants and motels along with roadside tourist > > places and the chambers of commerce that represent them as backing > a > preservation intiative that doesn't have a good piece of the pie > for > > them. > > > I think you explained yourself pretty well this time Fred. I see > where you're heading with this, and I also see what everyone wants to > avoid too. You're right, Fred. Saving the businesses by increasing > traffic, *could* in turn, lose the roadbed itself. And what is more > important? Personally, I think they both are important, and any plan > that could do *both* would be the best of both worlds. If such a > plan is possible...I think everyone else is right too, to keep the > road preserved as much as possible, but increase traffic with > Historic or Scenic byway designation. > > I think the positive things Fred is trying to accomplish are: > > - Increase awareness for Route 66 for the general public and > hopefully encourage people to travel on Route 66 (rather than the > interstate) and thus, support the businesses along the Route. > Clearly, the businesses on Route 66 would have a tough time surviving > solely from a small group of road warriors like us (of course, > there's a lot more folks than just us traveling the Route!). It would > be better if more people didn't think of road travel as travel on the > monotonous interstate with periodic stops at the generic "travel > plaza" and an overnight stay at the Ramada Inn at the interchange. > - Accomplish increased awareness by Historic or Scenic > designation, increased and consistent signage, directional turns. > > On that note, I see where you (Fred) want to have Route 66 designated > as 66 again. Call it re-commissioned, whatever. But....as others > have mentioned, if you get the federal government involved as a > commissioned highway, you could be subjecting the road (itself) to be > straightened, widened, whatever. We don't want that...just increased > traffic so that the businesses will benefit. Of course, Ken's right, > too...through the course of time, the road will need to be repaired > anyway. But why hasten that process by getting the Federal > government involved? I think that all the suggestions here have been > good ones: get historic 66 on more maps where possible, increase > signage...it's already on some parts of Mapquest and A LOT in > Microsoft Streets and Trips. > > I'm curious though, (and this is a random thought for discussion, not > an actual idea for anyone to do): what steps could be made to promote > a journey on Route 66 and other U.S. Highways from a marketing > standpoint - highway travel as a vacation destination in itself? I > think American Road itself is an entire campaign to do just that, > which is helpful. I know there's associations, American Road and > Route 66 magazine, websites, etc...but they would have to be sought > out by people who are interested in finding out more, and all that > stuff preaches to the choir - we already love traveling old roads, so > we seek out this information. > > I'm wondering how to reach out TO the "general public" on a national > level about the pleasure of two lane road travel? Anytime anyone has > a tourist destination or a product to sell, they advertise – push > their product. Unfortunately, I know marketing firms and ad > campaigns are expensive, but it would be an interesting "theory" > (repeat, I said "theory") if all the associations (and/or Route 66 > businesses all along the Route) could band together, and pool > resources and hire a marketing firm to advertise Route 66 in > magazines, television, radio like any other tourist destination or > product. I know, of course, that you need some serious cash to do > this and with the associations nonprofit, and businesses needing > every dollar they can to survivie, that this isn't possible. But as > I said, it would be an interesting idea to turn on the radio and hear > an ad about Route 66, like you do with all the other tourist > destinations. > > So, I'm next thinking about the tourism departments of the 8 states? > I'm always hearing Michigan commercials, or seeing them on TV! States > are always doing tourism commercials and they have the money to do > it. I'll bet if the states did big ad campaigns and featured Route > 66, that would help businesses. I'm sure Historic and scenic > designation would help that too. The Illinois state travel guide had > a section on Route 66 before. > > Anyway, this post was just some random thoughts I had. I think > there's some good ideas kicking around, but between all the message > boards that this tread is circulating on, it's all talk, no action. > It's interesting reading, but if anything would ever get done, a > group would have to be formed to create a specific plan of action, > assemble a list of contacts, asiign tasks and start implementing some > of these ideas (something like David Knudson's action team). > > Jennifer > > > > Visit our homepage at: http://www.mockturtlepress.com > > To subscribe to AMERICAN ROAD magazine, PHONE TOLL-FREE 1-877-285- 5434 WITH YOUR ORDER TODAY! > Or send payment to: Mock Turtle Press, PO Box 3168, Lynnwood, WA 98046-3168 > SUBSCRIPTION RATES: > 1 year (4 issues) for $15.95 > (save $3.85 off the newsstand price!) > 2 years (8 issues) for $27.95 > (save $11.65 off the newsstand price!) > > > For questions about the list, contact: AMERICAN_ROAD- owner@yahoogroups.com > > To SUBSCRIBE to this group, send an email to: AMERICAN_ROAD- subscribe@y... POST a message via e-mail, send it to: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AMERICAN_ROAD/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > AMERICAN_ROAD-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! > > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rwarn17588 Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, mike shadman <mike_shadman@y...> wrote: > Goodday Jennifer: > You probadly don't know me but I'm the other main person to get old 66 re-commission as a US designated highway. Fred has good thoughts but some of is ideals come from me too. He has his own plan on re-designation, but mine is different from his. We have made great strides with this Initiative. Example: Some 66 associations would like to see it happen, many of the public, some DOT members, and it has been discussed in Congress. A very big Washington lobbyist is interested in the ideal.> Which 66 associations would like to see it happen? I am in contact with four of the eight, and the key members of each don't want to see it happen. When was it discussed in Congress? That way, I can look it up in the Congressional Record. Who is the lobbyist? Start naming names. <I read and know where a lot of you are coming from and I agree with most of the 66ers about there suggestions. Preservation,Tourism,Events, and some travel along the old road isn't going to save it total for the businesses and the old road over all. You need some kind of continuous and improved route. My plan in short form is to use old alignments that will not destroy a lot of historic value and use new alignments where it can be feasible. 66ers live fear that re-commissioning 66 is destroy the whole > highway, not so, that why they have meeting on highway Initiatives before they take any action. You say if the Feds get involved that would destroy thing. A lot of your initiatives cost a lot of money, you going need the Federal Government sometime in the future. To many 66ers have a closed mind regarding re-commissioning of 66, they should open up, I include my efforts on preserving the old too!> We don't have closed minds. We have carefully considered the pros and cons, and came to the conclusion that it's a harmful plan. Here are the "closed mind" folks who've said on the record to us in writing or personally who oppose recommissioning U.S. 66. There are many more, believe me: -- Michael Taylor of the Route 66 Corridor Act -- Michael Wallis, author -- Jim Ross, author and Route 66 historian -- Jeff Meyer, historian and Steinbeck Award winner -- Missouri Route 66 Association president Tommy Pike -- Texas Route 66 Association president Becky Ransom -- Illinois Route 66 Association president Jeff LaFollette I think these folks have a lot more credibility and expertise than you, Mike. Or is that your real name? I've seen you post as George Kemberling. So who are you, really? Ron Warnick Tulsa, OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the AMERICAN_ROAD group: In the interest in clarifying the issue, I'm creating a new poll. It's simple. Do you or do you not want to recertify Route 66 as a United States Highway. o Do you want to recertify United States Route 66 as a Federal Highway? o Do you want to leave Route 66 as it is? To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AMERICAN_ROA...rveys?id=614471 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fred M. Cain Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 --- In route66@yahoogroups.com, "Fred M. Cain" <fredmcain@b...> wrote: Scott, In order for this to be really fair and objective, people have to understand completely what U.S. Certification is first. They don't. I'm sure of than. Given the choice you have provided here, I will have to vote no too. I will have to vote for "keep it like it is". This does not represent what I'm interested in. At all. The U.S. Numbered Route System is NOT a "federal" Highway System. Old U.S. 66 in its heyday *WAS* a federal highway (Federal Aid Primary). But Old, still certified U.S. 11 running alongside an Interstate Highway is NOT. It's a secondary road with a U.S. Route designtion. That's all. Really. Is that so dangerous? I don't think so. -Fred M. Cain --- In route66@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Piotrowski" <rt66prods@y...> wrote: > In the interest in clarifying the issue, I'm creating a new poll. > It's simple. Do you or do you not want to recertify Route 66 as a > United States Highway. > > Scott Piotrowski > Director, 66 Productions > Moderator, Historic Roads Preservation > > > --- In route66@yahoogroups.com, "sundayjohn66" <sundayjohn66@m...> > wrote: > > > > In the interest of clarifying this issue -- for me, for Ron, and > for the entire group -- > > when WAS the last time you drove Route 66? It's a simple question, > Fred: In what year > > did you last travel Route 66, and how far did you go? > > --- End forwarded message --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the AMERICAN_ROAD group: Does our group have too many polls? o Yes o No o I don't care - I ignore them anyway o The Texas Panhandle is NOT boring!! o I'm a native Texan and you wish you were To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AMERICAN_ROA...rveys?id=614574 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pat B. Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Helen, YOU are my new heroine! Remind me to buy you a drink at the Rendezvous next year! Pat --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, Bakerhab@a... wrote: > What is it about this time of the year that makes yahoo groups go wild? Take > a look at the message tallies for summer 2003. Was that the time when we > were debating whether the Hampton Caravan was good or bad for the road, or was > it, who should or should not, have gotten signs, or was that the debate over the > term 'American Owned,' I can't remember? Can any of you remember what was > redlining our tachometers a year ago? This summer we are being 'polled' out of > our minds over an issue that there will never be agreement on, or so it would > seem. > > I wish that I could demand that there be a moratorium on the topic of > recertification, but as a group member who has causes of her own, I have to respect > every other group member's "right to write." > > I do have one favor to ask though, please don't let this topic cause us to > lose track of all of the other activities and events going on during this time > along the road. > > Specifically, for me at least, can we please keep track of our 'erstwhile > Okie,' Brian McKay? I know that he has already passed many of you, but some of > us are still waiting for him to come into view. So please keep posting any > 1930 Nash sightings, and I'll sift through the messages and look for any crumbs > that you toss my way. > > Thanks, and yes, I do have a position on the question du jour, but I > shouldn't have to write about it for any of you who have met me to know what it is. > Did I vote, for what it's worth, yes I did. > > I realize that I'm taking a risk by offending those on both sides of the > debate by posting this message, but all I want to know is simply, WHERE'S BRIAN > MCKAY? > > Thank you, > Helen Baker > > > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pat B. Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Helen, YOU are my new heroine! Remind me to buy you a drink at the Rendezvous next year! Pat --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, Bakerhab@a... wrote: > What is it about this time of the year that makes yahoo groups go wild? Take > a look at the message tallies for summer 2003. Was that the time when we > were debating whether the Hampton Caravan was good or bad for the road, or was > it, who should or should not, have gotten signs, or was that the debate over the > term 'American Owned,' I can't remember? Can any of you remember what was > redlining our tachometers a year ago? This summer we are being 'polled' out of > our minds over an issue that there will never be agreement on, or so it would > seem. > > I wish that I could demand that there be a moratorium on the topic of > recertification, but as a group member who has causes of her own, I have to respect > every other group member's "right to write." > > I do have one favor to ask though, please don't let this topic cause us to > lose track of all of the other activities and events going on during this time > along the road. > > Specifically, for me at least, can we please keep track of our 'erstwhile > Okie,' Brian McKay? I know that he has already passed many of you, but some of > us are still waiting for him to come into view. So please keep posting any > 1930 Nash sightings, and I'll sift through the messages and look for any crumbs > that you toss my way. > > Thanks, and yes, I do have a position on the question du jour, but I > shouldn't have to write about it for any of you who have met me to know what it is. > Did I vote, for what it's worth, yes I did. > > I realize that I'm taking a risk by offending those on both sides of the > debate by posting this message, but all I want to know is simply, WHERE'S BRIAN > MCKAY? > > Thank you, > Helen Baker > > > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ken Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Gee Pat and Helen, I was about to create a new poll asking if we should have more polls. [hehe] Q;) Which reminds me of a novelty of Stanley Marsh III in Amarillo. It is about a ten foot pole with old used tires on the ground stacked up a few feet (with the pole going through the middle of the tires) and the pole is bearing a sign atop that says: "Tired Poll". God Bless and Happy Trails. Ken <http://www.postmarkart.com/links.htm> --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...> wrote: > Helen, YOU are my new heroine! Remind me to buy you a drink at the > Rendezvous next year! > > Pat > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, Bakerhab@a... wrote: > > What is it about this time of the year that makes yahoo groups go > wild? Take > > a look at the message tallies for summer 2003. Was that the time > when we > > were debating whether the Hampton Caravan was good or bad for the > road, or was > > it, who should or should not, have gotten signs, or was that the > debate over the > > term 'American Owned,' I can't remember? Can any of you remember > what was > > redlining our tachometers a year ago? This summer we are > being 'polled' out of > > our minds over an issue that there will never be agreement on, or > so it would > > seem. > > > > I wish that I could demand that there be a moratorium on the topic > of > > recertification, but as a group member who has causes of her own, I > have to respect > > every other group member's "right to write." > > > > I do have one favor to ask though, please don't let this topic > cause us to > > lose track of all of the other activities and events going on > during this time > > along the road. > > > > Specifically, for me at least, can we please keep track of > our 'erstwhile > > Okie,' Brian McKay? I know that he has already passed many of you, > but some of > > us are still waiting for him to come into view. So please keep > posting any > > 1930 Nash sightings, and I'll sift through the messages and look > for any crumbs > > that you toss my way. > > > > Thanks, and yes, I do have a position on the question du jour, but > I > > shouldn't have to write about it for any of you who have met me to > know what it is. > > Did I vote, for what it's worth, yes I did. > > > > I realize that I'm taking a risk by offending those on both sides > of the > > debate by posting this message, but all I want to know is simply, > WHERE'S BRIAN > > MCKAY? > > > > Thank you, > > Helen Baker > > > > > > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bakerhab2003 Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Pat, Who did I replace? As for buying me a beer next year, I'd be honored, but better yet, if you show up with cold bottle of Leinekugels Original, you'll be my hero. Helen --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...> wrote: > Helen, YOU are my new heroine! Remind me to buy you a drink at the > Rendezvous next year! > > Pat > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, Bakerhab@a... wrote: > > What is it about this time of the year that makes yahoo groups go > wild? Take > > a look at the message tallies for summer 2003. Was that the time > when we > > were debating whether the Hampton Caravan was good or bad for the > road, or was > > it, who should or should not, have gotten signs, or was that the > debate over the > > term 'American Owned,' I can't remember? Can any of you remember > what was > > redlining our tachometers a year ago? This summer we are > being 'polled' out of > > our minds over an issue that there will never be agreement on, or > so it would > > seem. > > > > I wish that I could demand that there be a moratorium on the topic > of > > recertification, but as a group member who has causes of her own, I > have to respect > > every other group member's "right to write." > > > > I do have one favor to ask though, please don't let this topic > cause us to > > lose track of all of the other activities and events going on > during this time > > along the road. > > > > Specifically, for me at least, can we please keep track of > our 'erstwhile > > Okie,' Brian McKay? I know that he has already passed many of you, > but some of > > us are still waiting for him to come into view. So please keep > posting any > > 1930 Nash sightings, and I'll sift through the messages and look > for any crumbs > > that you toss my way. > > > > Thanks, and yes, I do have a position on the question du jour, but > I > > shouldn't have to write about it for any of you who have met me to > know what it is. > > Did I vote, for what it's worth, yes I did. > > > > I realize that I'm taking a risk by offending those on both sides > of the > > debate by posting this message, but all I want to know is simply, > WHERE'S BRIAN > > MCKAY? > > > > Thank you, > > Helen Baker > > > > > > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bakerhab2003 Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Thanks Ken, you've just given me one more reason to love the Texas Panhandle. I wish we'd known about this pole when we came back through there from Tulsa. Helen --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <thelandrunner@y...> wrote: > Gee Pat and Helen, > > I was about to create a new poll asking if we should have more polls. > [hehe] Q;) > > Which reminds me of a novelty of Stanley Marsh III in Amarillo. It is > about a ten foot pole with old used tires on the ground stacked up a > few feet (with the pole going through the middle of the tires) and > the pole is bearing a sign atop that says: "Tired Poll". > > God Bless and Happy Trails. > > Ken > <http://www.postmarkart.com/links.htm> > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...> wrote: > > Helen, YOU are my new heroine! Remind me to buy you a drink at the > > Rendezvous next year! > > > > Pat > > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, Bakerhab@a... wrote: > > > What is it about this time of the year that makes yahoo groups go > > wild? Take > > > a look at the message tallies for summer 2003. Was that the time > > when we > > > were debating whether the Hampton Caravan was good or bad for the > > road, or was > > > it, who should or should not, have gotten signs, or was that the > > debate over the > > > term 'American Owned,' I can't remember? Can any of you remember > > what was > > > redlining our tachometers a year ago? This summer we are > > being 'polled' out of > > > our minds over an issue that there will never be agreement on, or > > so it would > > > seem. > > > > > > I wish that I could demand that there be a moratorium on the > topic > > of > > > recertification, but as a group member who has causes of her own, > I > > have to respect > > > every other group member's "right to write." > > > > > > I do have one favor to ask though, please don't let this topic > > cause us to > > > lose track of all of the other activities and events going on > > during this time > > > along the road. > > > > > > Specifically, for me at least, can we please keep track of > > our 'erstwhile > > > Okie,' Brian McKay? I know that he has already passed many of > you, > > but some of > > > us are still waiting for him to come into view. So please keep > > posting any > > > 1930 Nash sightings, and I'll sift through the messages and look > > for any crumbs > > > that you toss my way. > > > > > > Thanks, and yes, I do have a position on the question du jour, > but > > I > > > shouldn't have to write about it for any of you who have met me > to > > know what it is. > > > Did I vote, for what it's worth, yes I did. > > > > > > I realize that I'm taking a risk by offending those on both sides > > of the > > > debate by posting this message, but all I want to know is simply, > > WHERE'S BRIAN > > > MCKAY? > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Helen Baker > > > > > > > > > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ken Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Helen, D'oh,...I must have had "polls" on the mind. Q:) Please allow me to correct my typo, as the sign reads: "Tired Pole". Stanley and Company has placed many signs throughout the panhandle area that will make you chuckle. Keep an eye out for a roadside laugh. God Bless. Ken <http://www.postmarkart.com/links.htm> --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "bakerhab2003" <Bakerhab@a...> wrote: > Thanks Ken, you've just given me one more reason to love the Texas > Panhandle. I wish we'd known about this pole when we came back > through there from Tulsa. > > Helen > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <thelandrunner@y...> > wrote: > > Gee Pat and Helen, > > > > I was about to create a new poll asking if we should have more > polls. > > [hehe] Q;) > > > > Which reminds me of a novelty of Stanley Marsh III in Amarillo. It > is > > about a ten foot pole with old used tires on the ground stacked up > a > > few feet (with the pole going through the middle of the tires) and > > the pole is bearing a sign atop that says: "Tired Poll". > > > > God Bless and Happy Trails. > > > > Ken > > <http://www.postmarkart.com/links.htm> > > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...> > wrote: > > > Helen, YOU are my new heroine! Remind me to buy you a drink at > the > > > Rendezvous next year! > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, Bakerhab@a... wrote: > > > > What is it about this time of the year that makes yahoo groups > go > > > wild? Take > > > > a look at the message tallies for summer 2003. Was that the > time > > > when we > > > > were debating whether the Hampton Caravan was good or bad for > the > > > road, or was > > > > it, who should or should not, have gotten signs, or was that > the > > > debate over the > > > > term 'American Owned,' I can't remember? Can any of you > remember > > > what was > > > > redlining our tachometers a year ago? This summer we are > > > being 'polled' out of > > > > our minds over an issue that there will never be agreement on, > or > > > so it would > > > > seem. > > > > > > > > I wish that I could demand that there be a moratorium on the > > topic > > > of > > > > recertification, but as a group member who has causes of her > own, > > I > > > have to respect > > > > every other group member's "right to write." > > > > > > > > I do have one favor to ask though, please don't let this topic > > > cause us to > > > > lose track of all of the other activities and events going on > > > during this time > > > > along the road. > > > > > > > > Specifically, for me at least, can we please keep track of > > > our 'erstwhile > > > > Okie,' Brian McKay? I know that he has already passed many of > > you, > > > but some of > > > > us are still waiting for him to come into view. So please keep > > > posting any > > > > 1930 Nash sightings, and I'll sift through the messages and > look > > > for any crumbs > > > > that you toss my way. > > > > > > > > Thanks, and yes, I do have a position on the question du jour, > > but > > > I > > > > shouldn't have to write about it for any of you who have met me > > to > > > know what it is. > > > > Did I vote, for what it's worth, yes I did. > > > > > > > > I realize that I'm taking a risk by offending those on both > sides > > > of the > > > > debate by posting this message, but all I want to know is > simply, > > > WHERE'S BRIAN > > > > MCKAY? > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > Helen Baker > > > > > > > > > > > > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Wm. Ridge Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Friends, Fred M. Cain very recently wrote: -------------------------- ". . . people have to understand completely what U.S. Certification is first. They don't. I'm sure of than. . .. The U.S. Numbered Route System is NOT a "federal" Highway System. Old U.S. 66 in its heyday *WAS* a federal highway (Federal Aid Primary). But Old, still certified U.S. 11 running alongside an Interstate Highway is NOT. It's a secondary road with a U.S. Route designtion." -------------------------- I agree that, as students of American roads, we need to understand, authoritatively, what such terms as "certification," federal highway," and "secondary" mean. I would like to have the definitions in useful, everyday language. Let me throw out my working definitions and ideas for your corrections and additions. My understandings are: A federal highway is a highway built and maintained by the federal government. They are few. The National Pike (in its original form) is probably the purest example of a federal highway. Can we include military roads and forest roads as federal highways? A federal highway system, as sought by many in the late teens and early 20's, would have been a collection of federal highways interlacing the states. It was never created. Instead, we opted for federal aid to the states to build and maintain the interstate (small i) highways. In a cooperative effort, the states and the feds designed the US designated route system, creating routes called US 51, etc. The roads, however, were/are built and maintained by the states. Federal aid was/is available for the states, but I am not familiar with the "rules" for apportioning or making use of those funds. Nor am I familiar with what control the feds have over state spending and routing decisions for US numbered routes. Any help out there in the group? I have observed the use of the term "federal highway," even before the US numbering program existed, being used to mean that the road was build with federal aid. Roads using federal aid are not federal highways in the sense expressed in my definition, above. Roads build with some federal aid monies given to the states should properly be referred to as federal aid highways, not federal highways. This ambiguity demands a careful reading of both current and historic materials. I think that Cain's statement "Old U.S. 66 in its heyday *WAS* a federal highway (Federal Aid Primary)" gets to the heart of this confusion. US 66 was never a federal highway, but was a federal aid highway, as, apparently, were all US numbered routes. I do not understand Cain's remark "But Old [uS 66], still certified [as] U.S. 11 running alongside an Interstate Highway is NOT." It is not a federal highway, of course (none are), but it certainly must be a federal aid road? How might it differ from any other US numbered route? I still have to guess what "certified" or "commissioned" means. I assume that AASHTO has simply said that the route is an active US number-bearing route on which federal aid can be spent by the state, if desired. I have an intuitive understanding for the meanings of secondary and primary, but not a technical understanding. Again, can anyone help out here? Cain's remark that " . . . U.S. 11 running alongside an Interstate Highway is NOT [a federal road or federal aid road.] It's a secondary road with a U.S. Route designation" is not meaningful to me. Especially in the old days, some US numbered routes were out-of-the-way badly maintained roads well worth the "secondary" designation but they were interstate (small i) routes and, I assume but do not know, eligible to have federal aid money spent on them. If this is of any interest to you, please help out on some of these definitions and facts. John John Ridge, President Yellowstone Trail Association www.yellowstonetrail.org jridge@yellowstonetrail.org 715-834-5992 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Wm. Ridge Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Friends, Fred M. Cain very recently wrote: -------------------------- ". . . people have to understand completely what U.S. Certification is first. They don't. I'm sure of than. . .. The U.S. Numbered Route System is NOT a "federal" Highway System. Old U.S. 66 in its heyday *WAS* a federal highway (Federal Aid Primary). But Old, still certified U.S. 11 running alongside an Interstate Highway is NOT. It's a secondary road with a U.S. Route designtion." -------------------------- I agree that, as students of American roads, we need to understand, authoritatively, what such terms as "certification," federal highway," and "secondary" mean. I would like to have the definitions in useful, everyday language. Let me throw out my working definitions and ideas for your corrections and additions. My understandings are: A federal highway is a highway built and maintained by the federal government. They are few. The National Pike (in its original form) is probably the purest example of a federal highway. Can we include military roads and forest roads as federal highways? A federal highway system, as sought by many in the late teens and early 20's, would have been a collection of federal highways interlacing the states. It was never created. Instead, we opted for federal aid to the states to build and maintain the interstate (small i) highways. In a cooperative effort, the states and the feds designed the US designated route system, creating routes called US 51, etc. The roads, however, were/are built and maintained by the states. Federal aid was/is available for the states, but I am not familiar with the "rules" for apportioning or making use of those funds. Nor am I familiar with what control the feds have over state spending and routing decisions for US numbered routes. Any help out there in the group? I have observed the use of the term "federal highway," even before the US numbering program existed, being used to mean that the road was build with federal aid. Roads using federal aid are not federal highways in the sense expressed in my definition, above. Roads build with some federal aid monies given to the states should properly be referred to as federal aid highways, not federal highways. This ambiguity demands a careful reading of both current and historic materials. I think that Cain's statement "Old U.S. 66 in its heyday *WAS* a federal highway (Federal Aid Primary)" gets to the heart of this confusion. US 66 was never a federal highway, but was a federal aid highway, as, apparently, were all US numbered routes. I do not understand Cain's remark "But Old [uS 66], still certified [as] U.S. 11 running alongside an Interstate Highway is NOT." It is not a federal highway, of course (none are), but it certainly must be a federal aid road? How might it differ from any other US numbered route? I still have to guess what "certified" or "commissioned" means. I assume that AASHTO has simply said that the route is an active US number-bearing route on which federal aid can be spent by the state, if desired. I have an intuitive understanding for the meanings of secondary and primary, but not a technical understanding. Again, can anyone help out here? Cain's remark that " . . . U.S. 11 running alongside an Interstate Highway is NOT [a federal road or federal aid road.] It's a secondary road with a U.S. Route designation" is not meaningful to me. Especially in the old days, some US numbered routes were out-of-the-way badly maintained roads well worth the "secondary" designation but they were interstate (small i) routes and, I assume but do not know, eligible to have federal aid money spent on them. If this is of any interest to you, please help out on some of these definitions and facts. John John Ridge, President Yellowstone Trail Association www.yellowstonetrail.org jridge@yellowstonetrail.org 715-834-5992 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Kruser Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Currently US 14 in Illinois is known as the Ronald Reagan Highway. It appears that now Wisconsin is extending that designation with the following bill. Bill Kruser Sen. Welch: Reagan Highway Bill Passes Assembly 3/11/2004 For Immediate Release Contact: Senator Bob Welch (608) 266-0751 March 11, 2004 Section of United States Highway 14 would be designated aˆ?Ronald Reagan Highwayaˆ? MADISON- The State Assembly on Wednesday passed Senate Bill 40 (SB 40), authored by Senator Bob Welch (R-Redgranite). SB 40 will designate United States Highway 14 (USH 14) from the Wisconsin-Illinois boarder to Madison as the aˆ?Ronald Reagan Highway.aˆ? SB 40 previously passed the State Senate on May 6, 2003 on a voice vote. aˆ?I look forward to honoring President Reagan by designating a portion of Highway 14 in recognition and appreciation of his outstanding public service to our country,aˆ? said Welch. aˆ?Ronald Reagan is one of our countries greatest Presidents, and it has been a privilege to author this legislation to honor him.aˆ? No state funds will be used for the erection or maintenance of any markers on USH 14 to identify that section of highway as the aˆ?Ronald Reagan Highway.aˆ? Senate Bill 40 also pays tribute to President Reagan by stating that the naming of the section of USH 14 will be designated the aˆ?Ronald Reagan Highwayaˆ?: aˆ?In recognition and appreciation of the public career of Ronald Reagan, who served for 2 terms of office with distinction as the 40 th President of the United States of America and who has more recently demonstrated grace and dignity in his ongoing struggle with Alzheimeraˆ™s disease.aˆ? aˆ?I look forward to Governor Doyle quickly signing SB 40 into law and designating a section of USH 14 as Ronald Reagan Highway,aˆ? Welch added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Russell S. Rein Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Hmmmm.... Shouldn't that be State Route 2 in Illinois - the Lincoln Highway? Go's right thru his hometown of Dixon, IL. ypsi-slim On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:01:33 -0500 "Bill Kruser" <imagesbywd@aol.com> writes: > Currently US 14 in Illinois is known as the Ronald Reagan Highway. > It > appears that now Wisconsin is extending that designation with the > following bill. > > Bill Kruser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim Ross Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Hi Folks, I agree that the re-certification issue has probably reached the annoyance level for some, especially since the odds of that actually happening are somewhere less than zero, but since my own stretch of road was brought up, I hope you will bear with me for a few more comments. My good friend the Landrunner made an example with the Arcadia roadway where I live. In the seven years I have lived here I can honestly say there has been virtually no deterioration of the roadbed (most of the patching is much older than that). The right of way needs to be cleaned up, but the road has maintained its integrity and its historic feel. Being on the National Register offers some protection. That said, it doesn't mean they can't "improve" it, but I would much rather deal with the Oklahoma County commissioner for this district (one, accessible decision maker) than the bureaucratic black holes of ODOT or AASHTO. Mr. Cain apparently thinks it is possible to officially restore the numbering and have signs put up and that's where it stops. Not so. Re-certificaiton (the only way to get US markers installed) means placing the road under both state and (regarding funding) federal jurisdiction. You cannot separate one from the others. If Mr. Cain thinks otherwise, he is either misinformed or drawing on assumptions. Departments of transportation have only one goal when it comes to roads: to facilitate traffic in the fastest, safest way. Period. End of mission statement. They don't care about anything else. They are not preservationists and they couldn't care less about tourism or the whimsical wants of Route 66 roadies. I'm sorry to say it, Fred, but mostly what we hear from you is vague or comes with nothing to back it up. For example, you have defended the accusation that you haven't been on the road in decades, yet you still didn't say when the last time was. Likewise, simply claiming that re-certificaiton is the only way to save Route 66 (whatever that means) doesn't cut it. If you want to win hearts and minds, you must be candid about who you are and back up your statements with facts. In any case, it is clear to me that the re-certification you propose has the potential to be disastrous. Putting Route 66 back into state and federal jurisdiction would be like inviting the shark into the bath tub. To use a sports analogy, the number 66 jersey has been retired and I, for one, will do everything I can to make sure it stays in the trophy room where it belongs. Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rudyard Welborn Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 This may require a trek to Wisconsin; while the microvariants of the Pride of Chippewa Falls may be available in your local grocery stores or watering holes, the "original" is pretty much left to those in the Northwoods that have bowed to its presence at the (beginning, middle, end) of the day forever...if you ever trek to Spooner WI, find your way to Mac Lake Tavern and have my sister in law put one (two, seven) on my tab (I assume I have one)...Tsingtao, Kip ----- Original Message ----- From: "bakerhab2003" <Bakerhab@aol.com> To: <AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 2:08 PM Subject: [AMERICAN_ROAD] Re: Enough already with the polls > Pat, > > Who did I replace? As for buying me a beer next year, I'd be > honored, but better yet, if you show up with cold bottle of > Leinekugels Original, you'll be my hero. > > Helen > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...> wrote: > > Helen, YOU are my new heroine! Remind me to buy you a drink at the > > Rendezvous next year! > > > > Pat > > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, Bakerhab@a... wrote: > > > What is it about this time of the year that makes yahoo groups go > > wild? Take > > > a look at the message tallies for summer 2003. Was that the time > > when we > > > were debating whether the Hampton Caravan was good or bad for the > > road, or was > > > it, who should or should not, have gotten signs, or was that the > > debate over the > > > term 'American Owned,' I can't remember? Can any of you remember > > what was > > > redlining our tachometers a year ago? This summer we are > > being 'polled' out of > > > our minds over an issue that there will never be agreement on, or > > so it would > > > seem. > > > > > > I wish that I could demand that there be a moratorium on the > topic > > of > > > recertification, but as a group member who has causes of her own, > I > > have to respect > > > every other group member's "right to write." > > > > > > I do have one favor to ask though, please don't let this topic > > cause us to > > > lose track of all of the other activities and events going on > > during this time > > > along the road. > > > > > > Specifically, for me at least, can we please keep track of > > our 'erstwhile > > > Okie,' Brian McKay? I know that he has already passed many of > you, > > but some of > > > us are still waiting for him to come into view. So please keep > > posting any > > > 1930 Nash sightings, and I'll sift through the messages and look > > for any crumbs > > > that you toss my way. > > > > > > Thanks, and yes, I do have a position on the question du jour, > but > > I > > > shouldn't have to write about it for any of you who have met me > to > > know what it is. > > > Did I vote, for what it's worth, yes I did. > > > > > > I realize that I'm taking a risk by offending those on both sides > > of the > > > debate by posting this message, but all I want to know is simply, > > WHERE'S BRIAN > > > MCKAY? > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Helen Baker > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit our homepage at: http://www.mockturtlepress.com > > To subscribe to AMERICAN ROAD magazine, PHONE TOLL-FREE 1-877-285-5434 WITH YOUR ORDER TODAY! > Or send payment to: Mock Turtle Press, PO Box 3168, Lynnwood, WA 98046-3168 > SUBSCRIPTION RATES: > 1 year (4 issues) for $15.95 > (save $3.85 off the newsstand price!) > 2 years (8 issues) for $27.95 > (save $11.65 off the newsstand price!) > > > For questions about the list, contact: AMERICAN_ROAD-owner@yahoogroups.com > > To SUBSCRIBE to this group, send an email to: AMERICAN_ROAD-subscribe@yahoogroups.comTo POST a message via e-mail, send it to: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shellee Graham Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Hey kids, (1) Just wanted to say THANKS for the great time in Tulsa at the Internat'l Route 66 Festival. I enjoyed seeing the friends and getting to spend some time with y'all. And recently, we got to meet and make new pals in Litchfield, IL. That was a fun event and hope to participate in that again next year. My son TREVOR enjoyed going to the Sky-View Drive-In and seeing the 10 minutes till showtime cartoon: hot dog and bun, dancing popcorn and butter, etc. I traded with painter/digital artist Helen Flint for one of her very cool drive-in prints. (NOW Trev has a drive-in theme started in his bedroom.) (2)nd piece of news: We're proud to announce the REAL World premier of our new documentary: "Built for Speed: The Coral Court Motel," will take place on SUNDAY, July 11th, 6 pm in St. Louis (University City) MO. The venue is the historic TIVOLI THEATRE (1924). ==================================== (Learn more about the TIVOLI THEATRE: The Tivoli, a University City landmark since its construction in 1924, opened during the vaudeville and photoplay era in the United States. With a seating capacity of 1,400 and housing a variety of retail shops during the time period, the theater gained a reputation for being one of the places to go for a high-class movie experience at an affordable price. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch epitomized the theater as possessing "luxury and splendor eclipsing that of any St. Louis theater," which was reflected by the theater's overwhelming popularity. The theater went through decades of decline and closed its doors in 1994, until Joe and Linda Edwards, owners of local restaurant and club Blueberry Hill and music venue The Pageant, contributed $2.5 million to restore and renovate the theater to its past glory. The theater re-opened May 19, 1995, with three screens. Today, the theater stands four stories tall, is listed in the National Register of Historic Places and is home to seven specialty shops.) ==================================== T h e KICK-OFF o f t h e S t. L o u i s F I l m m a k e r s? S h o w c a s e . . . ===================================================== * BUILT FOR SPEED: THE CORAL COURT MOTEL * Sunday, JULY 11th at 6 p.m. at the TIVOLI Theatre. Directed by Bill Boll, Produced by Shellee Graham, 70 minutes, Documentary Acknowledged at its time for being an architectural masterpiece, the Coral Court motel off Route 66 became known for the extensive privacy the motel provided for its patrons, including garages next to their rooms. That same privacy, however, also led to scandal. From a kidnapping to sexual liaisons, Coral Court has its share of interesting stories. Come and hear the stories of this hotel as told by the employees and patrons who lived them. ============================================ Tickets/Passes · Individual general admission tickets are $9 each; $8 for students with valid and current photo ID; and specially priced at $7 for Friends members of Cinema St. Louis with valid membership cards. · Advance tickets go on sale beginning Thursday, July 1st at the Tivoli Theatre box office. Tickets are on a first-come, first-serve basis. No phone sales. Call 314-454-0042, ext. 10, for information. Venue All shows are held in the main auditorium of the Tivoli Theatre. This beautiful facility is located at 6350 Delmar in the University City Loop. Parking is available all over the area including garage across the street, lot beside the theater, public lots behind Blockbuster, and any metered spot in the area. Change for the meters is your responsibility. Changing your mind about the local filmmaking scene is ours. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for reading. Best Regards, Shellee Graham http://www.coralcourt.com p.s. I just bought some coral court bumper stickers and a t-shirt from the www.cafepress.com/coralcourt store. They look rather good. A second showing of the documentary will be on Tuesday, July 27th at 8 pm at the Contemporary Art Museum in St. Louis http://www.contemporarystl.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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