Guest Rob Carnachan Posted July 2, 2005 Report Share Posted July 2, 2005 Since when is emissions testing a bad thing? Cars pollute and, if you live in an area that isn't attaining air quality standards, emission testing is necessary. I'm glad to do it. Rob Carnachan Denver, CO >From: "brownwho63" <wefly66@earthlink.net> >Reply-To: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com >To: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [AMERICAN_ROAD] MO Emissions Testing >Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:16:15 -0000 > _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sundayjohn66 Posted July 2, 2005 Report Share Posted July 2, 2005 --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Carnachan" <robcarn@m...> wrote: > Since when is emissions testing a bad thing? Speaking as the biggest hippie on the list (at least until Bob Waldmire gets a computer and joins us) I can tell you exactly what the problem is with the emissions testing laws in the St. Louis region, at least on the Illinois side of the river: They sound great in theory, but they don't work in practice, because they have no teeth. If you pay the government enough money, you can keep right on polluting. And the fines are cheaper than a new car. If you register your car in a jurisdiction where testing is not required, you can keep right on polluting. And so forth. I also have a problem with requiring emissions tests only in areas that don't attain air quality standards. Usually those areas are substandard because of industrial pollution, not cars. You could take every resident's car off the road in the St. Louis metropolitan area, and you'd still have a ridiculous amount of air pollution because of the oil refineries, steel mills and factories around here, which belch great clouds of smoke from their chimneys all day, every day. You'd still have pollution from the big semis rolling in and out of the city all day, every day ... none of them registered here, none of them subject to our emissions standards. You'd have pollution from the cars and trucks and SUVs coming in and out of the city from far-flung suburbs where testing isn't required. Now ... how do we fix *that*? If anything, the way the emissions testing laws are written at the moment, they encourage MORE pollution, because they give people an incentive to live farther from the city (thereby contributing to urban sprawl). If you live in O'Fallon, IL, you can drive a car that exhales black smoke from its tailpipe. You can drive it all the way from your home in O'Fallon to your job in St. Louis ... about 20 miles. And you'll never have to pay a fine for failing an emissions test, because O'Fallon is outside the range of our emissions-testing requirements. Now, let's say you find a house in Caseyville, 10 miles closer to your job, and you decide to move. Now you're using your car half as much -- thereby putting half as many pollutants into the air -- but you're going to be penalized for it, because you are now subject to emissions testing requirements. The emissions testing laws are nothing more than a way for the politicians to look busy on environmental issues while doing next to nothing to correct the bigger problem, which is industrial pollution and what I refer to as "imported" pollution -- too many semis coming from too many places, belching too much diesel smoke. Don't get me wrong: I think every little bit helps. If I didn't, I wouldn't drive a station wagon that gets between 35 and 40 mpg, we wouldn't be looking at a Honda Insight to replace Ron's car, I wouldn't recycle every scrap of recyclable material that comes in the house, we wouldn't have an organic garden, I wouldn't have power strips all over the house to eliminate phantom loads, and we wouldn't have a CFL in every light fixture in our home. But the emissions laws as they are currently written simply aren't as effective as they should be. If the cars were really the problem, no one would be allowed to keep driving a vehicle that doesn't meet the standards, regardless of how much they spent on failed repairs or how big a fine they paid to the local government. Expensive poison is no less toxic than cheap poison. Personally, I'd like to see some laws cracking down on things like people driving these Valdez-sized SUVs when they have no children, nothing to haul, and no plans to drive off-road ever, for any reason. I'd like to see more bike trails. I'd like to see more funding for carpool programs and expanded mass transit options. I'd like to see a crackdown on industrial pollution. I'd like to see more incentives for people to drive gas-electric hybrids. I'd like to see more incentives for the development of biodiesel, fuel cells and other alternative technologies. I'd like to see a repeal of these stupid city ordinances telling people they can't drive zero-emissions electric scooters in the bike lane on city streets. And let's have more bike lanes, while we're at it. I'd like to see better public education about these technologies and about the environment. Every time I utter the words "gas-electric hybrid," some idiot asks me where I plan to plug in my car to charge it up. These vehicles have been on the road for four years, and people STILL haven't figured out how they work. The government is never going to solve our environmental problems for us. The politicians are in bed with the polluters, and the laws are full of compromises and loopholes that make them utterly impractical. The solution lies with the grassroots. It always has, and it always will. We live in a world driven by the laws of supply and demand. You know why McDonald's wraps your sandwich in paper instead of packing it in styrofoam? Consumer demand. People started griping about the environmental implications of all that styrofoam going into landfills, so Mickey D's reduced its packaging to avoid a boycott. It's why they only use American beef, too; they used to import beef, but people found out that was contributing to deforestation in the Amazon, and consumer pressure is a powerful tool. We could do the same thing to Monsanto. We could do the same thing to the oil refineries. And we might as well get off our butts and do it ourselves, because the government is not going to do it for us. It's getting better. At least the government is *thinking* about things like emissions testing, even if the laws themselves aren't very practical. And the public is much more aware now than it ever has been. Ten years ago, the question was "Where's the trash can?" Five years ago, the question was "Do you recycle?" Now, the question is "Where's your recycling bin?" I see positive signs every day. But we need more. And we need to hold our politicians accountable and make sure that their "environmental" policies really help the environment and aren't just feel-good policies that sound good but accomplish little. If anybody wants information about ways to reduce your *own* ecological footprint, e-mail me offlist. I've been reading Mother Earth News (and taking it to heart) since I was four. I'd be happy to swap ideas with you. Emily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest big_ugly_mich@yahoo.com Posted July 2, 2005 Report Share Posted July 2, 2005 > Speaking as the biggest hippie on the list (at least until Bob > Waldmire gets a computer and joins us) I can tell you exactly what > the problem is with the emissions testing laws in the St. Louis > region, at least on the Illinois side of the river: > > They sound great in theory, but they don't work in practice, because > they have no teeth. If you pay the government enough money, you can > keep right on polluting. And the fines are cheaper than a new car. > If you register your car in a jurisdiction where testing is not > required, you can keep right on polluting. And so forth. I'd like to be able to test my car periodically (probably annually or so). Do I have a private choice? I'm a Libertarian, and pay $77 a year to consider myself a member of that very real political party. > > I also have a problem with requiring emissions tests only in areas > that don't attain air quality standards. Usually those areas are > substandard because of industrial pollution, not cars. You could > take every resident's car off the road in the St. Louis > metropolitan area, and you'd still have a ridiculous amount of air > pollution because of the oil refineries, steel mills and factories > around here, which belch great clouds of smoke from their chimneys > all day, every day. You'd still have pollution from the big semis > rolling in and out of the city all day, every day ... none of them > registered here, none of them subject to our emissions standards. All of them subject to federal standards. > You'd have pollution from the cars and trucks and SUVs coming in > and out of the city from far-flung suburbs where testing isn't > required. Now ... how do we fix *that*? It's in our own best interest to fix that. It makes the car cheaper to run if we do fix that. Efficient machines of any sort are cleaner than innefficient machines, and also cheaper to run. > > If anything, the way the emissions testing laws are written at the > moment, they encourage MORE pollution, because they give people an > incentive to live farther from the city (thereby contributing to > urban sprawl). If you live in O'Fallon, IL, you can drive a car > that exhales black smoke from its tailpipe. You can drive it all > the way from your home in O'Fallon to your job in St. Louis ... > about 20 miles. And you'll never have to pay a fine for failing an > emissions test, because O'Fallon is outside the range of our > emissions-testing requirements. But you'll pay through the nose for gasoline and oil that didn't burn, which is why the smoke is black. > > Now, let's say you find a house in Caseyville, 10 miles closer to > your job, and you decide to move. Now you're using your car half as > much -- thereby putting half as many pollutants into the air -- but > you're going to be penalized for it, because you are now subject to > emissions testing requirements. The emissions testing laws are > nothing more than a way for the politicians to look busy on > environmental issues while doing next to nothing to correct the > bigger problem, which is industrial pollution and what I refer to > as "imported" pollution -- too many semis coming from too many > places, belching too much diesel smoke. But still cleaner than the average car, because it's in the transport company's best interest to keep them maintained. It reduces the ol' bottom line, which increases profits. Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. > > Don't get me wrong: I think every little bit helps. If I didn't, I > wouldn't drive a station wagon that gets between 35 and 40 mpg, we > wouldn't be looking at a Honda Insight to replace Ron's car, I > wouldn't recycle every scrap of recyclable material that comes in > the house, we wouldn't have an organic garden, I wouldn't have power > strips all over the house to eliminate phantom loads, and we > wouldn't have a CFL in every light fixture in our home. But the > emissions laws as they are currently written simply aren't as > effective as they should be. Here's a better example. In Milwaukee, Wisconsin, filling stations are required by law to sell oxygenated gasoline, which does in fact burn cleaner than the stuff they used to sell. It pollutes more because, since no one's car was designed to run oxygenated gasoline, you burn a lot more fuel and pollute the air more per mile than you used to, even though each gallon of gas is cleaner. > If the cars were really the problem, no one would be allowed to keep > driving a vehicle that doesn't meet the standards, regardless of how > much they spent on failed repairs or how big a fine they paid to the > local government. Expensive poison is no less toxic than cheap > poison. > > Personally, I'd like to see some laws cracking down on things like > people driving these Valdez-sized SUVs when they have no children, > nothing to haul, and no plans to drive off-road ever, for any > reason. Not I. People who do this pay massive gasoline taxes, which fund cleanup of pollutants. > I'd like to see more bike trails. You don't need a trail to ride a bike. I can legally ride mine on any road in the county except the interstate. If I want to go where the interstate does on my bicycle, I take the frontage road. There's one on each side of the interstate proper. > I'd like to see more funding for carpool programs and expanded mass > transit options. Mass transit is a gimme. One of the big problems some conservatives have with expanding Chicago's METRA (inter urban rail) to Milwaukee is the cost of construction. I've had talk show hosts hang up on me when I tell them that NO track was laid for METRA as it now stands, although much was upgraded to passenger grade. That's just a matter of taking up old track and laying down new track. No survey costs, no construction costs, just the cost of actual track and it's really not that hard to lay with machinery. If I was the God of Milwaukee, I'd have METRA travel to Milwaukee's Potawatomi Casino WHERE THERE'S TRACK LAID ON BOTH SIDES!!!! They have trolleys going downtown and to a few other locations, since many of their patrons are too old to drive, but spend money out the waz playing bingo and having gab fests. I love freedom. > I'd like to see a crackdown on industrial pollution. YOU have the power to not patronize the polluters. No crackdown is necessary. > I'd like to see more incentives for people to drive gas-electric > hybrids. From where did the electricity to charge the batteries come? Some nuclear plant? Some smoke barfing coal plant? Are they hydrogen based, like the Hindenburg (big kablooie that made)? > I'd like to see more incentives for the development of biodiesel, > fuel cells and other alternative technologies. They're already in place. It's called consumer demand. > I'd like to see a repeal of these stupid city ordinances telling > people they can't drive zero-emissions electric scooters in > the bike lane on city streets. And let's have more bike lanes, while > we're at it. I'd like to see better public education about these > technologies and about the environment. Every time I utter the words > "gas-electric hybrid," some idiot asks me where I plan to plug in my > car to charge it up. These vehicles have been on the road for four > years, and people STILL haven't figured out how they work. > > The government is never going to solve our environmental problems for > us. The politicians are in bed with the polluters, and the laws are > full of compromises and loopholes that make them utterly impractical. > > The solution lies with the grassroots. It always has, and it always > will. We live in a world driven by the laws of supply and demand. You > know why McDonald's wraps your sandwich in paper instead of packing it > in styrofoam? Consumer demand. People started griping about the > environmental implications of all that styrofoam going into landfills, > so Mickey D's reduced its packaging to avoid a boycott. It's why they > only use American beef, too; they used to import beef, but people > found out that was contributing to deforestation in the Amazon, and > consumer pressure is a powerful tool. We could do the same thing to > Monsanto. We could do the same thing to the oil refineries. And we > might as well get off our butts and do it ourselves, because the > government is not going to do it for us. Has anyone ever heard how Mickey D tried to recycle the styrofoam they wrapped Big Macs with? What caused them to stop? Idiotic consumers who couldn't separate styrofoam from other trash. McD's is in it for the money, and anyone who lived in Southern California can thank the late Ray and Joan Kroc for spending a lot of that money on behalf of the people. > > It's getting better. At least the government is *thinking* about > things like emissions testing, even if the laws themselves aren't very > practical. And the public is much more aware now than it ever has been. > > Ten years ago, the question was "Where's the trash can?" > > Five years ago, the question was "Do you recycle?" > > Now, the question is "Where's your recycling bin?" > > I see positive signs every day. But we need more. And we need to hold > our politicians accountable and make sure that their "environmental" > policies really help the environment and aren't just feel-good > policies that sound good but accomplish little. > > If anybody wants information about ways to reduce your *own* > ecological footprint, e-mail me offlist. I've been reading Mother > Earth News (and taking it to heart) since I was four. I'd be happy to > swap ideas with you. > > Emily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest big_ugly_mich@yahoo.com Posted July 2, 2005 Report Share Posted July 2, 2005 --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Michael G. Koerner" <mgk920@d...> wrote: > "R.V. Droz" <us98@e...> wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:52:27 -0500 > > From: "R.V. Droz" <us98@e...> > > Subject: RE: Short trip on 41 > > > > Sounds like you skipped over on to US 441, not 141. > > In 1927, the route you took was all US 41. Back then US 441 only > > connected Ocala to Orlando. > > US 41 in Illinois and Michigan are also worthy roadtrip drives, if you > are ever able to make it that far north. OTOH, for me a 'short trip on > 41' is a drive on a busy 6 lane urban freeway. > > BTW, US 141 runs from the Green Bay, WI area (actually Bellevue, WI) > northward to US 41 a bit south of L'Anse, MI, although it originally > went as far south as Milwaukee via Manitowoc and Sheboygan, WI. Eastern > Wisconsin is laced with fun-to-explore 'old' roadways of both routes, too. > > d > -- > ___________________________________________ ____ _______________ > Regards, | | ____ > | | | | | > Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again! > Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | | > ___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________ Milwaukee County 241 is the old route, but it's a few busy city streets, even though there's a lot more fun stuff to patronize than on the new, "improved" 41, which was done simply to stick the bill for upkeep on the county rather than federal D.O.T. and make Bush look like a fiscal genius. They closed a couple of my favorite ol haunts, a restaurant called Mel's, and the 41 Twin Outdoor Theater, when the tourists stopped patronizing them for some ungodly reason. Who's gonna replace the taxes these folks paid for the privilege of not being represented. Didn't we fight a war with England over this very issue in the eighteenth century? I'm a big honkin' conservative, but why did Bush have to cut off his nose to spite his face by closing several taxpaying businesses to save a few bucks? That, sadly, isn't unique to Milwaukee, either. The interstates serve a useful purpose by keeping speed demons off the cool highways, but why can't the powers that be keep the cool highways cool? It's in their own best interests as well as yours and mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sundayjohn66 Posted July 3, 2005 Report Share Posted July 3, 2005 > It's in our own best interest to fix that. It makes the car cheaper > to run if we do fix that. Most people aren't smart enough to understand that ... or they can't afford the cost of maintenance on the car (which costs less over the long haul but requires paying a bigger chunk at a time). > You don't need a trail to ride a bike. No, I don't. But most roads in our area are not safe for bicyclists. Trails and bike lanes would help us conserve fuel and improve our health without risking life and limb to do so. Trails also encourage people to take up bicycling as a hobby; the more they do it, the more likely they are to consider it a viable form of transportation. And FYI, there are many stretches of interstate in many areas that do NOT have frontage roads on either side. > From where did the electricity to charge the batteries come? Some > nuclear plant? Some smoke barfing coal plant? Are they hydrogen > based, like the Hindenburg (big kablooie that made)? Every gas-electric hybrid is equipped with both a gasoline-powered internal combustion engine and a battery. When the car is going uphill or accelerating, it is powered by the ICE ... which charges the battery simultaneously. When the car is going downhill or traveling at a constant speed, the battery powers the car. And when the car is at a stoplight, the engine shuts off altogether, then comes back on instantly when you hit the gas pedal. It's an ingenious little system that results in vehicles that average anywhere from 50 to 80 mpg, depending on their size, with substantially lower emissions than other vehicles. Hybrids aren't perfect, but they're a hell of a lot better than anything else on the road right now. Two things are holding them back: Price and ignorance. They're more expensive than traditional ICE-only cars. Worse yet, most people have absolutely no clue how they work. They assume that the car has to be plugged in somewhere. They assume that the car relies on power from some coal-fired or nuke-powered plant somewhere that's causing more pollution than any ICE on the road. They're wrong, of course, but that doesn't stop them from clinging blindly to their assumptions and trying their damnedest to talk Ron and me out of buying a hybrid. It's extremely frustrating. I hope awareness will increase now that the 2004 Toyota Prius has been named Motor Trend's Car of the Year. Emily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Carnachan Posted July 3, 2005 Report Share Posted July 3, 2005 Interesting comments. In some major cities, however, automobiles ARE the major source of air pollutants -- Los Angeles, for example. Thanks to aggressive government regulation (the only way to properly address environmental problems), what you term "industrial pollution" has largely been taken care of there. The problem is with the automobile. Cleaner burning fuels have helped for years there but mandatory emissions testing is an important component of the mix in terms of ensuring that gross polluters are kept off of the streets (legally at least). As requirements for percentages of new cars sold in CA being hybrids, electric, etc. begin to kick in over the next several decades, the overall mix of the auto fleet will gradually shift over to cleaner vehicles. This too will help. If the major problems in the St. Louis metro area are still coming from "industrial pollution", then it sounds like the states of Missouri and Illinois simply aren't doing enough to regulate industries, factories, etc. in the same way California has. They need to catch up. I was living in Wisconsin during the whole hullaballoo over the introduction of "reformulated" gasoline there in the mid-1990s. You wouldn't believe the urban legends about how it would wreck your engine, etc. Having moved there from Los Angeles, where we had happily been using this sort of gasoline for years and years, I just couldn't help but think how strange it was that people were so upset about it. Rob Carnachan Denver, CO >From: big_ugly_mich@yahoo.com >Reply-To: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com >To: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [AMERICAN_ROAD] Re: MO Emissions Testing (LONG) >Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:14:42 -0000 > _________________________________________________________________ Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday. http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sundayjohn66 Posted July 3, 2005 Report Share Posted July 3, 2005 > In some major cities, however, automobiles ARE the major source of air > pollutants -- Los Angeles, for example. L.A.'s air really is nasty. We were there in August 2001 and could hardly breathe. The air was so dirty you literally couldn't see the tops of the palm trees ... or even the mountains surrounding the city. The mountains are a big part of the problem out there ... they trap all the exhaust fumes and stuff, and there's just nowhere for it to go. Add to that the enormous population, the hot weather, and the lack of a good mass transit system to provide an alternative to driving everywhere, and you've got some spectacular pollution. (I think L.A. was where I developed my deep-seated hatred of big SUVs: I kept seeing these enormous vehicles going by with one person inside them, the clueless drivers seemingly oblivious to the fact that the air around them was BROWN.) St. Louis has a much different problem. We have lots of factories, and I can't believe a single one of them is in compliance with EPA standards. I don't know why they haven't been shut down or forced to clean up that crap coming out of their smokestacks. We also have our share of jerks driving inefficient or poorly maintained vehicles, but most of the problem is industrial pollution. The summer heat and humidity don't help, either, because they trap a lot of the ozone on the ground. (We have some VOCs, but ozone is the big deal around here.) I'm doing my bit for the environment — I bought the most fuel-efficient vehicle I could find that met my needs, and I keep it tuned up and monitor my gas consumption closely so I can find out immediately if there's a problem — but it's pretty discouraging to look around and see all the folks who *aren't*. Things are getting better, though. Ron reminds me of what St. Louis looked like in the '70s, with a brown haze over the whole city, and it's much better now. Meanwhile, I keep dreaming of New Mexico skies.... Emily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R.V. Droz Posted July 3, 2005 Report Share Posted July 3, 2005 The daughter routes of US 41 1) US 141, extended north over the first US highway number to be decommissioned US 102. 2) US 241 , existed in the 1920's. It used to connect Hopkinsville, KY to Nashville, TN along what is now US 41. Back then, what is now Alt US 41 was US 41 in this area. 2a) US 241 [iI], existed from the 1930's to the 1950's from Tenn. to Ala., now mostly US 431. 3) US 341, Connects US 41 to Brunswick, GA. Briefly extended to Atlanta in the 1930's. 4) US 441, used to connect US 41 at Ocala to US 92 in Orlando. Extended north and south until the 1950's. 5) US 541, existed from the 1930's to the 1950's in the Tampa Bay, FL area, now it's mostly Bus US 41. 6) US 641, created in the 1950's, used to continue north to Indiana, also used to end at Paris, TN, truncated and extended in the 1970's. -- ___________________________________________________________ Happy Motoring! _._._._.____~__ Robert V. Droz ( us98@earthlink.net ) [____________][___ U.S. Highways : From US 1 to (US 830) [________/____[_|__ http://www.us-highways.com/ ()() ()() () Route Logs - Standard Oil - Highway Makeover - Pics - Maps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ken Posted July 3, 2005 Report Share Posted July 3, 2005 Hi Pat!! SWEET! My two youngest Grandson's are getting into their 50cc cycles. This ol' landrunner can hardly keep up on his 500! I'm going to stay tuned to this! Dalton and Levi just might get inspired to do a 66 roadtrip on bikes with me someday!!! Thank you for sharing this priceless info of a Yamaha roadtrip on most of the Mother Road. Yep! God Bless. Ken <http://www.postmarkart.com/links.htm> P.S. Yamaha sells just as many guitars, pianos, amplifiers and stereo systems too! Quality specialties, which makes one wonder why they never manufactured automobiles. Darn good bikes for the 66 kicks! --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Pat" <roadmaven@a...> wrote: > Hi all...There's a neat thing SPEED TV is doing the next couple of > weeks. The host of their Tuesday night show "2 Wheel Tuesday" and a > partner are riding 50cc Yamaha Zuma scooters from Lowes Motor > Speedway in Charlotte, NC to Fontana, CA. Their route takes them > through OK City, Amarillo, Albuquerque, Flagstaff, up to Las Vegas, > and down into Fontana. Since these are illegal on the interstates, > it's only logical which road they'll be on from OK City into Arizona. > A complete itinerary can be found at the SPEED website: > http://speedtv.com/features/562/ > > Also, watch for updates Monday through Thursday night on > SPEED's "Wind Tunnel with Dave Despain", 10-11pm EST. If any of you > business owners out there on 66 encounter them in the next two weeks, > let us know! > > Pat B. > Speedway, IN > http://roadtripmemories.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bakerhab@aol.com Posted July 3, 2005 Report Share Posted July 3, 2005 PRESS RELEASE Announcing an Open House at the Goffs Schoolhouse Museum and Cultural Center On April 5-6, 2003 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: March 31, 2003 FOR MORE INFORMATION: JoAnn Casebier Mojave Desert Heritage & Cultural Association 37198 Lanfair Road -- Goffs Essex, CA 92332 Phone 760-733-4482 email goffs@eastmojave.net Goffs Schoolhouse Museum and Cultural Center Plans Open House Weekends to Introduce Visitors to a Treasure of the East Mojave GOFFS SCHOOLHOUSE MUSEUM and CULTURAL CENTER MONTHLY OPEN HOUSE EVENTS 2003 The Mojave Desert Heritage & Cultural Association announces monthly open house events at the Goffs Schoolhouse for 2003. The Schoolhouse and adjacent Cultural Center grounds will be open for public visitation the first weekend of each month from January through June and October through December 9:00 a.m. through 5:00 p.m. (Specific weekends are: 4-5 January, 1-2 February, 1-2 March, 5-6 April, 3-4 May, 7-8 June, 4-5 October, 1-2 November, 6-7 December.) The Goffs Schoolhouse was constructed in 1914 and served the region until 1937, at which time the present school was built in Essex and the Goffs School abandoned. It is one of the few remaining structures in Goffs located on the original 1926 alignment of U. S. Highway 66. The school served the needs of families of railroaders, highway people, miners, and ranchers. The Schoolhouse was restored to its 1914 configuration by the Association in 1998. Some work is ongoing, but it is now fitted out with displays of artwork and artifacts depicting the cultural history of the Mojave Desert. There are many artifacts (old vehicles, mining machinery, and much more) on the adjacent grounds. To facilitate public visitation, the Association has published a "Guide to the Goffs Cultural Center" booklet for the convenience of visitors which is keyed to 40 numbered stations inside the Schoolhouse and about 100 numbered pegs around the grounds. With the aid of this interpretive booklet, visitors can spend several hours enjoying the displays on a self-guided basis. Picnic areas are available for visitors. On October 11, 2001, the Goffs Schoolhouse was placed on the National Register of Historic Places by the U. S. Department of the Interior. It is the only building along old U. S. Highway 66 in California and the only one-room schoolhouse in all of southern California on that prestigious national register. The Mojave Desert Heritage & Cultural Association was formed as a nonprofit tax-exempt corporation in 1993 with a mission to: "Research and educate the public with the natural and cultural history of the Mojave Desert regions through operation of a regional research center including a library and archives, restoration of historic buildings, interpretation of backcountry trails, publication of educational guide books and historical monographs and periodicals in concert with government agencies and people of good faith everywhere." The Mojave Desert Archives, situated in buildings adjacent to the Goffs Schoolhouse, embraces more than 6,000 volumes pertaining to the history of the Desert west, more than 700 taped oral history interviews conducted with desert "old-timers" with firsthand knowledge, more then 40,000 historical photographs of the Desert west, 4,000 historic maps, and much more. These materials are in special collections that are made available with advance arrangement to qualified students and writers doing in-depth research on the Mojave Desert. The Mojave Desert Heritage & Cultural Association is a nonprofit tax-exempt corporation. No charge is made for admission to the Schoolhouse and adjacent property, donations are welcome. To get there. From the direction of Barstow take I-40 east about 110 miles to a point one mile east of Fenner Rest Stop and exit the Interstate where a sign says "Goffs Road." Turn left under the freeway bridge and follow blacktop Goffs Road for 11 miles to Goffs. From Needles or Las Vegas Area take U.S. Highway 95 south (from Searchlight) or north (from I-40 up out of Needles) to the point where 95 crosses the main line of the Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway. Turn west on Goffs Road (south of the tracks) and travel 14 miles to Goffs. The Schoolhouse is on the North side of the tracks at the intersection of Goffs and Lanfair Roads -- for a positive identification, there are two windmills on the Goffs Schoolhouse property, the only ones in Goffs. Special arrangements can be made for visitation to the Schoolhouse by groups or at other times during the year by appointment. For additional information contact the Association at 760-733-4482 -- or email goffs@eastmojave.net -- or visit the Association's web site at www.mdhca.org. For additional information contact: JoAnn Casebier Mojave Desert Heritage & Cultural Association 37198 Lanfair Road -- Goffs Essex, CA 92332 Phone 760-733-4482 email goffs@eastmojave.net or Helen Baker 818-705-3930 bakerhab@aol.com ##### Note to Editor: Interview Opportunities: Dennis Casebier, Executive Director is available for interviews and to provide additional information about the open house and the Schoolhouse Museum and Cultural Center. Please contact Dennis Casebier at 760-733-4482 or goffs@eastmojave.net to arrange. Photo Opportunities: There will be excellent photo opportunities of east Mojave memorabilia and of volunteers working on projects around the grounds. Photos are also available at www.mdhca.org. >> >> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 "P.S. Yamaha sells just as many guitars, pianos, amplifiers and stereo systems too! " I prefer 4 wheels over 2, but wouldn't mind a CP-80 in the house! .... Chris --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <thelandrunner@y...> wrote: > Hi Pat!! > > SWEET! My two youngest Grandson's are getting into their 50cc cycles. > This ol' landrunner can hardly keep up on his 500! I'm going to stay > tuned to this! Dalton and Levi just might get inspired to do a 66 > roadtrip on bikes with me someday!!! Thank you for sharing this > priceless info of a Yamaha roadtrip on most of the Mother Road. Yep! > > God Bless. > > Ken > > <http://www.postmarkart.com/links.htm> > > P.S. Yamaha sells just as many guitars, pianos, amplifiers and stereo > systems too! Quality specialties, which makes one wonder why they > never manufactured automobiles. Darn good bikes for the 66 kicks! > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Pat" <roadmaven@a...> wrote: > > Hi all...There's a neat thing SPEED TV is doing the next couple of > > weeks. The host of their Tuesday night show "2 Wheel Tuesday" and a > > partner are riding 50cc Yamaha Zuma scooters from Lowes Motor > > Speedway in Charlotte, NC to Fontana, CA. . . . > > > > Pat B. > > Speedway, IN > > http://roadtripmemories.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lulupic66@aol.com Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 In a message dated 4/6/05 4:07:11 PM Central Daylight Time, mburic231@yahoo.com writes: Mark, please contact me offline as to I am curious as to what you were up to, in this area. Are you a local? Are you close? > I know Joliet and Plainfield are two of them. > I know for a fact, that is where it happens My > other guess would be 30 hits Lockport at some point. 30 doesn't hit Lockport at all > So that would be my final guess of the three. Right > or wrong no maps have been pulled out. > > Interestingly, last night I drove on and crossed both > those roads when I went to the Riviera. For about an > hour+ it was just Bob and me talking' it easy and having > some drinks. > I am a member of the Rt. 66 stuff. Just this last Sat, people from the > preservation committee erected hand made signs to direct travelers to the > streetcar behind the Riviera that is in the process of being restored. > The streetcar has been restored to look like the rest that it once housed. > It was also a living quarters at one point. > I will try to find out the paper with the info on it later > Bob and Peggy, the owners/operators of the place are up there in years, > late 70,s early 80's I believe. The place is up for sale. > If anybody is interested? E-mail me offline and I can get info for you. > Piece of useless trivia. Bob has always had a liquor license. He has never > had a Drivers License. > A quick story here that I had with Bob. > He lives above the rest. The rest is in the basement. He doesn't have to > drive, he lives right there. > It was a cold, rainy damp night. I was on my way home. I live about 45 > minutes north of the place in Romeoville. > I was the only one in the place. He closes about 10 PM It was about 9 PM or > closer to 9:30. > Bob likes to show off the gifts that he has received from customers and > Roadie/travelers. He has a bunch of 'singing toys" that he likes to show off. > He also has bottles of alcohol that have been given to him. He drinks the > bottles one at a time till it is gone. > Bob leans over to me and whispers, "I have a bottle that I have been > working on. Would you like to do a shot with me? "Of course," I replied, "It is > called " Hot Sex" It was similar to a cinnamon flavored liquor, very tasty, I > might add. > As I was walking out the door, I flippantly remarked, "Thanks for the "Hot > Sex" Bob," > The smile on his face was worth it. > He comes down every night to tend bar for a few hours. He always wears a > white shirt with a black bow tie. > You need to know that he is in the middle of nowhere, not really, but it is > really rural America > At one point he leaned over to tell me, > "They used to call me "Rapid Robert" now they call me "Bow tie Bob" > That cracked me up. I wrote it down, so I wouldn't forget it. > I was looking at my notes, It was in Oct of 04 and he was 80 yrs old at the > time > If you are traveling the old 2 lanes, you need to experience the 'old > timers" and document this stuff. It is going be gone before you can blink an eye > at it. There have been opportunities I have had to take pics, I was tired, etc. I will catch it the next time. I have found out the hard way. THERE IS NO NEXT TIME! When you see something that you might be interested in. DO IT NOW! I found out today, I lost another photo op from a "wiser" Lulu > > Regards, > > Mark Buric > > > > > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David G. Clark Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Although 66 never officially went through Lockport, there are some 1928 maps from motor clubs that show a 66 detour using Archer Avenue, which was IL 4A. However, fine research by a great road scholar, Carl Johnson has revealed that, first of all, offical State highway maps never showed this alignment, and second, US highway shields and signage were not placed on the roads in Illinois until the Spring of 1928. So, motor clubs could publish any routings they pleased without fear of contradicting (non-existent) signage before spring 1928. And of course, any maps distributed in 1928 would have been printed in 1927. So, the jury is stil out on this one, but it is my considered opinion that no official routing of 66 ever went through Lockport. I also do not believe that US 30 ever went through Lockport, officially or unofficially. If anyone has any documentation showing otherwise, I'd love to see it! So, we still have just the two crossroads of Plainfield and Joliet. Since we seem to be at an impasse, here's a clue-- The answer can be found in the Federation News, the magazine of the National Historic Route 66 Federation. Ready, set, Go! Start furiously reading all your back issues! Dave Clark --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, Mark <mburic231@y...> wrote: > > I know Joliet and Plainfield are two of them. My > other guess would be 30 hits Lockport at some point. > So that would be my final guess of the three. Right > or wrong no maps have been pulled out. > > Interestingly, last night I drove on and crossed both > those roads when I went to the Riviera. For about an > hour+ it was just Bob and me takin' it easy and having > some drinks. > > Regards, > > Mark Buric > > > --- "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...> wrote: > > > > I'm taking a guess and say Joliet, Lockport, and > > Romeoville. > > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "David G. > > Clark" <olympia66@n...> > > wrote: > > > > > > I have had little time to post in the past year, > > so I thought I would > > > start working back in with a little trivia > > question: > > > > > > Due to realignments, the crossroads of US 30 and > > US 66 has been > > > located in three different cities. Can you name > > all three cities > > where > > > 30 and 66 once crossed? > > > > > > Extra points if you can answer without pulling out > > old maps! > > > > > > Dave Clark > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger > Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun. > http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo.com/emoticontest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alex Burr Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Dave, Looks like you're right - I'm looking at a 1941 AAA Tour Guide Book (Western Addition) that shows 66 coming out of Chi Town on Ogden Avenue to Lyons, then to Plainfield where it crosses 30. From Plainfield it swings south to Willmington passing to the west of Joliet. There is, however, Alternate 66 that runs on the west side of the Des Plaines River thru Joiliet on Chicago Street, then south thru Elwood, Wilmington, Briadwood and Braceville to rejoin 66 in Gardner. It appears, on todays maps, Ogden Avenue is now U S 34. Rather confusing as Chicago has expanded considerably since 1941. Safe Traveling. Hudsonly, Alex B --- "David G. Clark" <olympia66@netzero.net> wrote: > > Although 66 never officially went through Lockport, > there are some > 1928 maps from motor clubs that show a 66 detour > using Archer Avenue, > which was IL 4A. However, fine research by a great > road scholar, Carl > Johnson has revealed that, first of all, offical > State highway maps > never showed this alignment, and second, US highway > shields and > signage were not placed on the roads in Illinois > until the Spring of > 1928. So, motor clubs could publish any routings > they pleased without > fear of contradicting (non-existent) signage before > spring 1928. And > of course, any maps distributed in 1928 would have > been printed in 1927. > > So, the jury is stil out on this one, but it is my > considered opinion > that no official routing of 66 ever went through > Lockport. > > I also do not believe that US 30 ever went through > Lockport, > officially or unofficially. If anyone has any > documentation showing > otherwise, I'd love to see it! > > So, we still have just the two crossroads of > Plainfield and Joliet. > Since we seem to be at an impasse, here's a clue-- > > The answer can be found in the Federation News, the > magazine of the > National Historic Route 66 Federation. > > Ready, set, Go! Start furiously reading all your > back issues! > > Dave Clark > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, Mark > <mburic231@y...> wrote: > > > > I know Joliet and Plainfield are two of them. My > > other guess would be 30 hits Lockport at some > point. > > So that would be my final guess of the three. > Right > > or wrong no maps have been pulled out. > > > > Interestingly, last night I drove on and crossed > both > > those roads when I went to the Riviera. For about > an > > hour+ it was just Bob and me takin' it easy and > having > > some drinks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Mark Buric > > > > > > --- "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...> wrote: > > > > > > I'm taking a guess and say Joliet, Lockport, and > > > Romeoville. > > > > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "David G. > > > Clark" <olympia66@n...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have had little time to post in the past > year, > > > so I thought I would > > > > start working back in with a little trivia > > > question: > > > > > > > > Due to realignments, the crossroads of US 30 > and > > > US 66 has been > > > > located in three different cities. Can you > name > > > all three cities > > > where > > > > 30 and 66 once crossed? > > > > > > > > Extra points if you can answer without pulling > out > > > old maps! > > > > > > > > Dave Clark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Yahoo! Messenger > > Show us what our next emoticon should look like. > Join the fun. > > > http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo.com/emoticontest > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Personals - Better first dates. More second dates. http://personals.yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David G. Clark Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Alex: Yes. Official routing of 66 from 1926 through some point in the 1930s--I'd have to look up the exact year--from Chicago was Ogden to Joliet Road (with two different ways to make this transition) to Joliet. On modern maps, Joliet Road is IL 53. In the 1930s the route to Joliet became ALT 66, and the main route diverged from Joliet Road near Bolingbrook and continued SW into Plainfield (modern-day IL 126), then south on what is now IL129. For about two blocks in Plainfield, as Lynn Bagdon has already pointed out, US 30 and US 66 shared pavement--giving Plainfield the distinction of being the only place where this occurred. But the tricky part of this trivia puzzle is: US 66 was not the ONLY highway that had a significant change in routing. Here's my biggest clue so far: The original alignment of US 30 did not go through Joliet OR Plainfield! That's it for now, sports fans! Dave Clark --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, Alex Burr <hester_nec@y...> wrote: > Dave, > > Looks like you're right - I'm looking at a 1941 AAA > Tour Guide Book (Western Addition) that shows 66 > coming out of Chi Town on Ogden Avenue to Lyons, then > to Plainfield where it crosses 30. From Plainfield it > swings south to Willmington passing to the west of > Joliet. There is, however, Alternate 66 that runs on > the west side of the Des Plaines River thru Joiliet on > Chicago Street, then south thru Elwood, Wilmington, > Briadwood and Braceville to rejoin 66 in Gardner. > > It appears, on todays maps, Ogden Avenue is now U S > 34. Rather confusing as Chicago has expanded > considerably since 1941. > > Safe Traveling. > > Hudsonly, > Alex B > > --- "David G. Clark" <olympia66@n...> wrote: > > > > Although 66 never officially went through Lockport, > > there are some > > 1928 maps from motor clubs that show a 66 detour > > using Archer Avenue, > > which was IL 4A. However, fine research by a great > > road scholar, Carl > > Johnson has revealed that, first of all, offical > > State highway maps > > never showed this alignment, and second, US highway > > shields and > > signage were not placed on the roads in Illinois > > until the Spring of > > 1928. So, motor clubs could publish any routings > > they pleased without > > fear of contradicting (non-existent) signage before > > spring 1928. And > > of course, any maps distributed in 1928 would have > > been printed in 1927. > > > > So, the jury is stil out on this one, but it is my > > considered opinion > > that no official routing of 66 ever went through > > Lockport. > > > > I also do not believe that US 30 ever went through > > Lockport, > > officially or unofficially. If anyone has any > > documentation showing > > otherwise, I'd love to see it! > > > > So, we still have just the two crossroads of > > Plainfield and Joliet. > > Since we seem to be at an impasse, here's a clue-- > > > > The answer can be found in the Federation News, the > > magazine of the > > National Historic Route 66 Federation. > > > > Ready, set, Go! Start furiously reading all your > > back issues! > > > > Dave Clark > > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, Mark > > <mburic231@y...> wrote: > > > > > > I know Joliet and Plainfield are two of them. My > > > other guess would be 30 hits Lockport at some > > point. > > > So that would be my final guess of the three. > > Right > > > or wrong no maps have been pulled out. > > > > > > Interestingly, last night I drove on and crossed > > both > > > those roads when I went to the Riviera. For about > > an > > > hour+ it was just Bob and me takin' it easy and > > having > > > some drinks. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Mark Buric > > > > > > > > > --- "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm taking a guess and say Joliet, Lockport, and > > > > Romeoville. > > > > > > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "David G. > > > > Clark" <olympia66@n...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have had little time to post in the past > > year, > > > > so I thought I would > > > > > start working back in with a little trivia > > > > question: > > > > > > > > > > Due to realignments, the crossroads of US 30 > > and > > > > US 66 has been > > > > > located in three different cities. Can you > > name > > > > all three cities > > > > where > > > > > 30 and 66 once crossed? > > > > > > > > > > Extra points if you can answer without pulling > > out > > > > old maps! > > > > > > > > > > Dave Clark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Yahoo! Messenger > > > Show us what our next emoticon should look like. > > Join the fun. > > > > > http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo.com/emoticontest > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Personals - Better first dates. More second dates. > http://personals.yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David G. Clark Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 In my last post, I said the road in Plainfield that once was both 66 and 30 is now IL 129. Actually, it is now IL 59. That's what I get for writing these posts without looking at a map! --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "David G. Clark" <olympia66@n...> wrote: > > Alex: > > Yes. Official routing of 66 from 1926 through some point in the > 1930s--I'd have to look up the exact year--from Chicago was Ogden to > Joliet Road (with two different ways to make this transition) to > Joliet. On modern maps, Joliet Road is IL 53. > > In the 1930s the route to Joliet became ALT 66, and the main route > diverged from Joliet Road near Bolingbrook and continued SW into > Plainfield (modern-day IL 126), then south on what is now IL129. For > about two blocks in Plainfield, as Lynn Bagdon has already pointed > out, US 30 and US 66 shared pavement--giving Plainfield the > distinction of being the only place where this occurred. > > But the tricky part of this trivia puzzle is: US 66 was not the ONLY > highway that had a significant change in routing. Here's my biggest > clue so far: The original alignment of US 30 did not go through > Joliet OR Plainfield! > > That's it for now, sports fans! > > Dave Clark > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, Alex Burr <hester_nec@y...> > wrote: > > Dave, > > > > Looks like you're right - I'm looking at a 1941 AAA > > Tour Guide Book (Western Addition) that shows 66 > > coming out of Chi Town on Ogden Avenue to Lyons, then > > to Plainfield where it crosses 30. From Plainfield it > > swings south to Willmington passing to the west of > > Joliet. There is, however, Alternate 66 that runs on > > the west side of the Des Plaines River thru Joiliet on > > Chicago Street, then south thru Elwood, Wilmington, > > Briadwood and Braceville to rejoin 66 in Gardner. > > > > It appears, on todays maps, Ogden Avenue is now U S > > 34. Rather confusing as Chicago has expanded > > considerably since 1941. > > > > Safe Traveling. > > > > Hudsonly, > > Alex B > > > > --- "David G. Clark" <olympia66@n...> wrote: > > > > > > Although 66 never officially went through Lockport, > > > there are some > > > 1928 maps from motor clubs that show a 66 detour > > > using Archer Avenue, > > > which was IL 4A. However, fine research by a great > > > road scholar, Carl > > > Johnson has revealed that, first of all, offical > > > State highway maps > > > never showed this alignment, and second, US highway > > > shields and > > > signage were not placed on the roads in Illinois > > > until the Spring of > > > 1928. So, motor clubs could publish any routings > > > they pleased without > > > fear of contradicting (non-existent) signage before > > > spring 1928. And > > > of course, any maps distributed in 1928 would have > > > been printed in 1927. > > > > > > So, the jury is stil out on this one, but it is my > > > considered opinion > > > that no official routing of 66 ever went through > > > Lockport. > > > > > > I also do not believe that US 30 ever went through > > > Lockport, > > > officially or unofficially. If anyone has any > > > documentation showing > > > otherwise, I'd love to see it! > > > > > > So, we still have just the two crossroads of > > > Plainfield and Joliet. > > > Since we seem to be at an impasse, here's a clue-- > > > > > > The answer can be found in the Federation News, the > > > magazine of the > > > National Historic Route 66 Federation. > > > > > > Ready, set, Go! Start furiously reading all your > > > back issues! > > > > > > Dave Clark > > > > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, Mark > > > <mburic231@y...> wrote: > > > > > > > > I know Joliet and Plainfield are two of them. My > > > > other guess would be 30 hits Lockport at some > > > point. > > > > So that would be my final guess of the three. > > > Right > > > > or wrong no maps have been pulled out. > > > > > > > > Interestingly, last night I drove on and crossed > > > both > > > > those roads when I went to the Riviera. For about > > > an > > > > hour+ it was just Bob and me takin' it easy and > > > having > > > > some drinks. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Mark Buric > > > > > > > > > > > > --- "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I'm taking a guess and say Joliet, Lockport, and > > > > > Romeoville. > > > > > > > > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "David G. > > > > > Clark" <olympia66@n...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have had little time to post in the past > > > year, > > > > > so I thought I would > > > > > > start working back in with a little trivia > > > > > question: > > > > > > > > > > > > Due to realignments, the crossroads of US 30 > > > and > > > > > US 66 has been > > > > > > located in three different cities. Can you > > > name > > > > > all three cities > > > > > where > > > > > > 30 and 66 once crossed? > > > > > > > > > > > > Extra points if you can answer without pulling > > > out > > > > > old maps! > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave Clark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > > Yahoo! Messenger > > > > Show us what our next emoticon should look like. > > > Join the fun. > > > > > > > http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo.com/emoticontest > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Personals - Better first dates. More second dates. > > http://personals.yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mikey Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 ROAD TRIPPIN USA Magazine Online is the Asphalt Kickers Guide to the world of the fuzzy dice car culture of the '50s and 60's, as well as the source for information on Roadside Nostalgia and Route 66. It's considered the Blue Suede Cruise where Pop Culture and Chrome Meet Asphalt and Art in a headon collision. We've completely revamped the magazine and want to inquire about the possibility of swapping links with your online site in our LINK EXCHANGE PROGRAM. If you'd like to participate just send us your URL Address for your site and a descriptive line of what you want to say about your site and badda-bing, badda-boom it's a done deal. We, of course will expect to be included on your site as well. Not a bad deal. Road Trippin USA Online Magazine http://community.webtv.net/sfroad/ROADIESRightOnLine If you would be interested just email us and we'll get you set up. Looking forward to hearing from you and if you have any questions please feel free to fire them off to us. Kick Asphalt! If you'd like information on carrying the new Roadhead Chronicles Book in your online bookstore or participating in our Affiliate Program email us for more information. Check out the booksite below for more information. The Roadhead Chronicles Booksite http://community.webtv.net/roadheadthree/book Contact us at: dharmabumroadie@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pat B. Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "David G. Clark" <olympia66@n...> wrote: > > Although 66 never officially went through Lockport, there are some > 1928 maps from motor clubs that show a 66 detour using Archer Avenue, > which was IL 4A. However, fine research by a great road scholar, Carl > Johnson has revealed that, first of all, offical State highway maps > never showed this alignment, and second, US highway shields and > signage were not placed on the roads in Illinois until the Spring of > 1928. So, motor clubs could publish any routings they pleased without > fear of contradicting (non-existent) signage before spring 1928. And > of course, any maps distributed in 1928 would have been printed in 1927. > > So, the jury is stil out on this one, but it is my considered opinion > that no official routing of 66 ever went through Lockport. Dave, I'm glad you mentioned this. About 4 years ago while helping with some preservation work at the Standard Station in Odell, we were looking at an old Illinois road map hanging on the wall from, if I recall, 1928. It may have been a Gousha map. But we noticed the 66 alignment on that map that you mentioned. This was news to us that 66 went down Archer and into Lemont and Lockport. We thought this may have been a big find, though we were puzzled no one ever mentioned this alignment. So within a couple of weeks, we did a ton of research, followed the alignment (around 30 miles), scoured images on Terra Server, and even spent an entire afternoon in the Joliet library trying to find local archives from Lockport, Joliet, and Lemont that may have mentioned Route 66 and its alignment. We came up with nada. We contacted the Illinois Department of Transportation and obtained copies of state highway maps from the late 1920's, but they weren't too helpful in digging into any archives for us. We kept hitting dead ends and gave up on the mystery. We thought we were searching for evidence that might not even exist. So now you've cleared this up four years later! Should've asked you to begin with. :-) Pat B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brownwho63 Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 I thought the third city might be Braidwood in addition to Joliet and Plainfield. There's a second alignment there on the north side of the tracks that runs parallel to the current alignment and south towards Gardner, across the old bridge that was torn down by the Riviera, and on south into Gardner where it would have joined old 66, now IL 53. If not, exactly what was/is that second alignment in the Braidwood/Gardner area?....Bliss --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...> wrote: > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "David G. Clark" > <olympia66@n...> wrote: > > > > Although 66 never officially went through Lockport, there are some > > 1928 maps from motor clubs that show a 66 detour using Archer > Avenue, > > which was IL 4A. However, fine research by a great road scholar, > Carl > > Johnson has revealed that, first of all, offical State highway maps > > never showed this alignment, and second, US highway shields and > > signage were not placed on the roads in Illinois until the Spring of > > 1928. So, motor clubs could publish any routings they pleased > without > > fear of contradicting (non-existent) signage before spring 1928. And > > of course, any maps distributed in 1928 would have been printed in > 1927. > > > > So, the jury is stil out on this one, but it is my considered > opinion > > that no official routing of 66 ever went through Lockport. > > Dave, > I'm glad you mentioned this. About 4 years ago while helping with > some preservation work at the Standard Station in Odell, we were > looking at an old Illinois road map hanging on the wall from, if I > recall, 1928. It may have been a Gousha map. But we noticed the 66 > alignment on that map that you mentioned. This was news to us that 66 > went down Archer and into Lemont and Lockport. We thought this may > have been a big find, though we were puzzled no one ever mentioned > this alignment. So within a couple of weeks, we did a ton of > research, followed the alignment (around 30 miles), scoured images on > Terra Server, and even spent an entire afternoon in the Joliet > library trying to find local archives from Lockport, Joliet, and > Lemont that may have mentioned Route 66 and its alignment. We came up > with nada. We contacted the Illinois Department of Transportation and > obtained copies of state highway maps from the late 1920's, but they > weren't too helpful in digging into any archives for us. We kept > hitting dead ends and gave up on the mystery. We thought we were > searching for evidence that might not even exist. So now you've > cleared this up four years later! Should've asked you to begin > with. :-) > > Pat B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pat B. Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 OK Dave, I believe I found the answer....but I cheated and researched on Google. Does that eliminate me? Pat B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David G. Clark Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...> wrote: > > OK Dave, I believe I found the answer....but I cheated and researched > on Google. Does that eliminate me? > > Pat B. First of all, eliminate your from WHAT exactly? The extra points? If you come up with the right answer, the extra points are yours to do with as you please! And I have never considered "research" to be a form of cheating. So, what did you find on Google, Pat? Please let us all in on the results of your research! Dave C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David G. Clark Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Bliss: Howdy to the Show Me state! No, it's not Braidwood. There are indeed two alignments of 66 in Braidwood, and if you follow either one north, you will get to the two crossroads we have already mentioned in previous posts--up in Joliet, where US 30 currently crosses Chicago Avenue; and up in Plainfield, where IL 59 and US 30 still cross AND share pavement for about 2 blocks (and 59 was 66 starting in the 1930s). Come to think of it, there would have been one more crossing of the two routes, but not a very exciting one: in its last years, US 66 was routed onto I-55, so the current interchange of I-55 and US 30 would have been the LAST crossing of the two highways--a cloverleaf that did NOT bring good luck. So there were actually 4 crossings. Joliet was the 2nd, Plainfield 3rd, I-55 the fourth. What was the first? 2 clues: The answer appeared in a Federation News article. So pull out your back issues and start reading AND US 66 was not the only highway that got rerouted. What was the original alignment of US 30? Enough for now, sports fans! Dave Clark --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "brownwho63" <wefly66@e...> wrote: > > I thought the third city might be Braidwood in addition to Joliet > and Plainfield. There's a second alignment there on the north side > of the tracks that runs parallel to the current alignment and south > towards Gardner, across the old bridge that was torn down by the > Riviera, and on south into Gardner where it would have > joined old 66, now IL 53. If not, exactly what was/is that second > alignment in the Braidwood/Gardner area?....Bliss > > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...> > wrote: > > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "David G. Clark" > > <olympia66@n...> wrote: > > > > > > Although 66 never officially went through Lockport, there are > some > > > 1928 maps from motor clubs that show a 66 detour using Archer > > Avenue, > > > which was IL 4A. However, fine research by a great road scholar, > > Carl > > > Johnson has revealed that, first of all, offical State highway > maps > > > never showed this alignment, and second, US highway shields and > > > signage were not placed on the roads in Illinois until the > Spring of > > > 1928. So, motor clubs could publish any routings they pleased > > without > > > fear of contradicting (non-existent) signage before spring 1928. > And > > > of course, any maps distributed in 1928 would have been printed > in > > 1927. > > > > > > So, the jury is stil out on this one, but it is my considered > > opinion > > > that no official routing of 66 ever went through Lockport. > > > > Dave, > > I'm glad you mentioned this. About 4 years ago while helping with > > some preservation work at the Standard Station in Odell, we were > > looking at an old Illinois road map hanging on the wall from, if I > > recall, 1928. It may have been a Gousha map. But we noticed the 66 > > alignment on that map that you mentioned. This was news to us that > 66 > > went down Archer and into Lemont and Lockport. We thought this may > > have been a big find, though we were puzzled no one ever mentioned > > this alignment. So within a couple of weeks, we did a ton of > > research, followed the alignment (around 30 miles), scoured images > on > > Terra Server, and even spent an entire afternoon in the Joliet > > library trying to find local archives from Lockport, Joliet, and > > Lemont that may have mentioned Route 66 and its alignment. We came > up > > with nada. We contacted the Illinois Department of Transportation > and > > obtained copies of state highway maps from the late 1920's, but > they > > weren't too helpful in digging into any archives for us. We kept > > hitting dead ends and gave up on the mystery. We thought we were > > searching for evidence that might not even exist. So now you've > > cleared this up four years later! Should've asked you to begin > > with. :-) > > > > Pat B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pat B. Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 OK, back in 1926, US 30 went through Chicago, and not to the south of it along the Lincoln Highway. Heading west out of the loop, 30 (Roosevelt Dr) intersected with Ogden Ave (66), thus the answer of the third city is: Chicago! Of course, I got all this from the internet, so it HAS to be true! ;-) Pat B. --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "David G. Clark" <olympia66@n...> wrote: > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...> wrote: > > > > OK Dave, I believe I found the answer....but I cheated and > researched > > on Google. Does that eliminate me? > > > > Pat B. > > First of all, eliminate your from WHAT exactly? The extra points? If > you come up with the right answer, the extra points are yours to do > with as you please! > > And I have never considered "research" to be a form of cheating. > > So, what did you find on Google, Pat? Please let us all in on the > results of your research! > > Dave C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David G. Clark Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Great Pat, that IS the correct answer! The original alignment of US 30 deviated from the Lincoln Highway near the Indiana/Illinois State line to travel north along Torrence Avenue. I do not have any maps here, but I know there were a few twists and turns through the south side of Chicago, until 30 turned west onto Roosevelt Road. So, Pat, you get those extra points. Those points and about $20.00 will buy you a cup of coffee at your neighborhood Starbucks! Dave Clark --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...> wrote: > > OK, back in 1926, US 30 went through Chicago, and not to the south of > it along the Lincoln Highway. Heading west out of the loop, 30 > (Roosevelt Dr) intersected with Ogden Ave (66), thus the answer of > the third city is: Chicago! Of course, I got all this from the > internet, so it HAS to be true! ;-) > > Pat B. > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "David G. Clark" > <olympia66@n...> wrote: > > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Pat B." <roadmaven@a...> > wrote: > > > > > > OK Dave, I believe I found the answer....but I cheated and > > researched > > > on Google. Does that eliminate me? > > > > > > Pat B. > > > > First of all, eliminate your from WHAT exactly? The extra points? > If > > you come up with the right answer, the extra points are yours to do > > with as you please! > > > > And I have never considered "research" to be a form of cheating. > > > > So, what did you find on Google, Pat? Please let us all in on the > > results of your research! > > > > Dave C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pat B. Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Dave, I got that info from this website: http://www.n9jig.com/21-40.html.. Here is the history of US 30 in Illinois, per the website: US-30 has gone thru many changes over the years. Originally it ran from Fulton IL east to Chicago and into IN on the following current day routes: US-30 Fulton to Sterling, IL-2 Sterling to Dixon, and IL- 38 Dixon to Bellwood. From Bellwood to Indiana it ran on various city streets including Roosevelt Road and Stoney Island Blvd. In the 1930's it was rerouted to a new road south of the original, pretty much on its current route to IN at Lansing. This process took several years, and went like this: In 1926: US-30 ran thru Chicago, North on Torrance from the IN line at IL-52 (Now IL-83) to the Loop and then west on Roosevelt to Geneva (west of Hillside it was on the current IL-38). It then ran west to Sterling on the current IL-38. In 1932: It was rerouted south of Chicago to Aurora via the Lincoln Highway, on its current route. North of Aurora it ran north on the current IL-31 to Geneva, then west to DeKalb and Sterling on the current IL-38 (The portion west of Geneva remained US-30). The old route became US-330. The next change was when the more direct route from Sterling to Aurora south of the original route was completed. The old road became US-330, as an extension to the then existing US-330. In 1942 US-330 became Alternate US-30. In 1971 this Alternate US-30 became IL-38 west of US-12/US-45. East of here the number was removed. The portion of IL-31 from Aurora to Geneva was US-30 for a while, after US-30 was rerouted south of Chicago (thru Joliet) and before it was rerouted west of Aurora. IL- 31 north of Geneva was US-430 at this time, and US-430 was changed to IL-31 before or at the same time as US-30 was rerouted west of Aurora. In the 1950's a new approach to and bridge over the Mississippi River was built and the old road became Alternate-US-30, then IL-136 (since the matching IA road was IA-136). Also in the late 1950's US-30 was rerouted around Aurora, and the old road became City-US-30 then Business-US-30, and now is unnumbered. In 1971 the parts of Alternate-US-30 west of Bellwood (US-45) became IL- 38, the rest lost the numbers altogether. During the period 1963 to 1965, if one drove south on IL-31 from anywhere north of St. Charles to Oswego he would have crossed in succession: Alt-US-30 (now IL-38, and formerly US-330), Toll-US-30 (now I-88), Bus-US-30 (now Galena Blvd.), US-30 (still US-30). At the same time he would have been on what was once known as US-430 north of Geneva and US-30 south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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