Guest laurelrk66@aol.com Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Here's a link to photos that accompany the following article from the New York Times. Figured it would be interesting to all the roadies here. <A HREF="http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/21/travel/21bpsanta.html">http://www.nytime s.com/2003/09/21/travel/21bpsanta.html</A> Laurel Afton Station, Afton OK <A HREF="http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/21/travel/21bpsanta.html"> </A> [unable to display image] September 21, 2003ESSAY A Road Trip Back to the Fifties By JOSEPH SIANO TIME hasn't been a friend to the roadside attractions that were such a staple of early postwar vacation trips. Someone, it turns out, moved the roadside. The Florida of my childhood - the animal vaudeville capital of the world, with its bicycling parrots and wrasslin' gators - is a case study. After the Interstates drained off much of the traffic that was the lifeblood of these places, along came theme-park alley in Orlando - a big bang that formed enough Worlds (Sea, Disney, et al.) to shift forever the gravitational pull for travelers. One of the latest beloved old Floridians to go from the roadside to the ditch is Cypress Gardens, which closed in April. Delta Burke, the actress who was a star of "Designing Women," has appeared in ads pleading for its rescue, motivated, one might think, by an affinity for the hoopskirted Scarlet O'Haras who once roamed its grounds. But frankly, too many others didn't give a darn. At least not enough to detour about 35 miles south of Kissimmee. My wife, Marsha, and I went a few years ago, and we thought the butterfly pavilion, whose inhabitants could give the Southern belles a lesson in flirtation, was worth the trip by itself - forget the hokey water-ski shows. But Cypress Gardens may have found a lifeguard - last month, the state approved a measure to protect the property from development and two possible buyers have expressed interest- so the butterflies and belles may not have to find jobs elsewhere. The situation cannot be good when mermaids are joining manatees as an endangered species. Weeki Wachee Springs on the state's Gulf Coast, with its submerged ballets presented by women dressed as real-life Ariels, is struggling to keep its head below water.We never got that far west in Florida in my childhood, but we racked up our share of visits to Weeki Wachee's brethren all the same. While we 50's travelers didn't have most of the Interstates and the fast-food chains that followed them, we did have the touristic equivalent of junk food: roadside attractions that were loaded with empty cultural calories. Whether the family Buick was pointed toward Miami or Niagara Falls, we were always ready to pull over for a supersize helping. Normally, my mind wouldn't be wandering back to those trips. But with so much rain dampening so many weekends this summer, recollections of family vacations were less nostalgia than creeping mildew. The Travel Channel had its limits as a substitute: with so much leisure time being washed down nature's sluice, who wants to see another rerun of "World's Best Bathrooms"? Instead, Marsha and I resorted to viewing old eight-millimeter family vacation movies (now available in VHS, thanks to Mom). And it turns out there is also a handy digest of some of the same highlights on the Internet, a Web site called Florida's Lost Tourist Attractions (at <A HREF="http://www.lostparks.com/">www.lostparks.com</A>). Who could forget Storyland, near Pompano Beach, which featured fairy-tale statues and miniature buildings, among other attractions? Our home movies show my father feeding some monkeys marooned on a concrete pad surrounded by a moat. That may have been Storyland's representation of Devil's Island, as I recall. And then there was Masterpiece Gardens, which closed in 1981. Visitors walked through a garden, just north of Lake Wales, Fla., until they came to a large wall covered by a curtain. It was slowly drawn (to solemn recorded music) to reveal "The Great Masterpiece": a giant mosaic copy of Leonardo da Vinci's "Last Supper." I tried not to think of this on my first visit to Santa Maria delle Grazie in Milan, but it was like trying to listen to the "William Tell" Overture without thinking of the Lone Ranger. What triggered my recollections of these family stops was an e-mail press release announcing the 54th season of Santa's Workshop, a roadside attraction in Wilmington, N.Y., 12 miles from Lake Placid. It was a reminder that somewhere among those reels of vacation movies were scenes of my older brother, Tony, and me nose to nose with the live reindeer, adoptees from Alaska, that wandered the grounds of Santa's Workshop. So when Marsha and I were looking for a quick getaway, Christmas in July didn't seem so bad. As we drove up to the lot, about 20 miles off I-87 between Albany and Montreal, where a dozen or so vehicles were parked, we were greeted by Shane. If his green costume left room for any doubt, his name tag cleared it up: "Santa's Helper." Although Shane was hardly elfin in stature, he lived up to his title, quickly directing us to the gate and offering to take our picture. At first, the admission fee seemed a little steep - $17.10 an adult, with tax - especially for a place whose technical wizardry is highlighted by a North Pole that through some miracle of refrigeration, remains coated in a kind of permafrosting, even in summer. That, and a video arcade, new this season. Inside the 30-acre park, the concessionaires included a "blacksmith" who wrote visitors' names in permanent marker on tiny horseshoes. At regular intervals, costumed characters appeared to perform to recorded music in skits with titles like "Poles Apart" (starring someone in a Pete the Penguin outfit). It was satisfying to discover that despite the nation's ever-more-urgent push for more productivity, work had gotten easier for some of Santa's workers since the Eisenhower years. The reindeer no longer have to pull a sleigh loaded with kids. Instead, they lounge around, diva-like, in a barn while visitors feed them graham crackers. Don't bother to get up for me, Vixen. Sleigh ride or no, the kids there seemed to be having a good enough time, awaiting an audience with Santa. For the adults, there's a bucolic-looking stream running down the hillside and small visual details to look out for, like the final words of "A Visit From St. Nicholas" on the paddles of a waterwheel. After a while, the historic relevance of the place begins to sink in. Santa's Workshop is a kind of living museum of roadside culture - a Colonial Williamsburg with antlers. Its owners, the Reiss family, have been the same since the outset, although they recently sold 60 percent interest to Doug Waterbury, a nostalgia buff from Oswego, N.Y. They say that Walt Disney sent some scouts to the place when he was dreaming up Disneyland, which opened in 1955. The folks at the Disney archives in California confirmed that this very likely could be true, and when you look around at its themed architecture - 20 tiny Alpine cottages, so carefully preserved that you would think our home movies had been shot yesterday with stand-ins - you can see an early Magic Kingdom. That, and the fact that the exit from Santa's Workshop is through the gift shop. It would be easy to lament the passing of the Workshop's many 1950's contemporaries. To do that, however, would require acknowledging the role that jaded attitudes have played. Families first stopped at roadside attractions to relieve the tedium of mile after mile on country roads. But as they flocked to ever-grander theme parks, boredom thresholds were pushed lower and lower - too low for butterflies, water skiers and counterfeit Leonardos. So what about an attraction that reminds us of the Interstate our attention spans are speeding along on? It would be similar to Greenfield Village, about 15 minutes west of Detroit, where Henry Ford relocated historic buildings that played a role in the lives of great inventors and everyday citizens. Collect all the phony little buildings from abandoned roadside attractions like Storyland in one place. Call it Land of the Easily Enchanted. Enjoy your stay, and please exit through the gift shop. JOSEPH SIANO is an assistant to the editor of the Travel section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Reynolds Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin C. Redden" <kcredden@k...> wrote: > Hi folks: > > I'm a long-time lurker, and when Babyboomerbob posted that the Simon > Kenton Bridge was opened again, I went out and got photos. Finally got > them posted on my web site. I've taken one set - the closeups, and > merged them into a 20" long panorama shot. Once I figure how to post > it to the site, I will. I know it'll be a huge file. > > You can find them here: http://kevinredden.name/start.html Just look > for the '9/5/04' news entry for links. Sorry for the sloppy web site, > I'm working on the design now. But thought you'd like to see the > photos before another year goes by Kevstah! What a groovy surprise! Welcome to the group! It's good to see the old bridge back in service. You know, I've been thinking. A road trip along US 52 in either direction from Aberdeen would be wonderful. All those old river towns along the Ohio River with all that neat architecture... You know, maybe...just maybe... once I'm home from Duluth, and if there's not too much damage to the house from the remnants of Frances and Ivan, I just might have time to catch up on my travelogue write ups. I'm so dreadfully behind:( > > Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roadmaven Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Greetings folks! This is just a little FYI about this weekend's Route 66 Festival (http://www.route66fest.com) in Springfield, IL. AMERICAN ROAD will have a booth in the Authors & Artists area on Adams between 5th & 6th Streets. Jim Ross will be manning the booth all weekend, so stop by & say hello. Have a safe trip to & fro and remember to pay homage to mom & pop along the way. Pat Bremer AR List Host Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kevin C. Redden Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Saw this in the local paper: - A Scottish artist and author who visited Aberdeen three years ago has published his account of the 96,000-mile journey that took him to every place named Aberdeen. http://maysville-online.thimblemedia.com/a...;articleid=9645 That would be a neat challenge. I know one who's visited nearly every county in the U.S. So this reminded me of him. This other guy is one heck of a road-warrior it seems Makes you wonder. How many 'Manchesters' are there, in the world? Manchester Oh is about 10 miles from Aberdeen Oh. Or for that matter 'Rome' or 'Trinity' or 'Concord' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alex Burr Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Kevin, There are numerous programs that will give you place names thru-out the world - Streets and Trips is one of them. Simply type in the name of the place you are curious about, such as Rome, and a list appears. Just for the fun of it type in the name Kennebunk sometime. I, myself, have visited every 'one' of them. LOL Hudsonly, Alex B --- "Kevin C. Redden" <kcredden@kevinredden.name> wrote: > > Saw this in the local paper: - > > A Scottish artist and author who visited Aberdeen > three years ago has > published his account of the 96,000-mile journey > that took him to > every place named Aberdeen. > > http://maysville-online.thimblemedia.com/a...;articleid=9645 > > That would be a neat challenge. I know one who's > visited nearly every > county in the U.S. So this reminded me of him. This > other guy is one > heck of a road-warrior it seems > > Makes you wonder. How many 'Manchesters' are there, > in the world? > Manchester Oh is about 10 miles from Aberdeen Oh. Or > for that matter > 'Rome' or 'Trinity' or 'Concord' > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roamndav Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Hello once again all: For those of you that are also members of the SW Auto Trails group, this is a double post but... I slowly but steadily manage to find 10 minutes here and there to improve my web pages. From my journeys in July, please check out my adventures along the old Historic 80 route that ran from Weatherford, Texas through Mineral Wells before angling down TX 16 and rejoing with the newer (1939) I-20 route. Here is a link to my Texas 80 page where you can check out any of my Texas adventures. http://bygonebyways.com/texas_80.htm Note: this historic and historic alternate 80 trips were fantastic drives through oak-studded rolling green hills and pasture land with occasional rock outcroppings and creeks. Truly areas not to be missed if you have the time. Jeff in Tucson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nicole Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Hi Ken! Yes, it IS an adventure of a lifetime. Ken....you can count me in on the July adventure. Kevin will go too. For as much as I went on about my feet and how I said I'd never hike in again.....I take that back. I was still wounded and angry at myself when I did that narrative. I actually look forward to doing it again.....but I am of course just going to make sure that by then I have broken in hiking shoes, and I'm going to have my pack taken in by mule. No extra weight, and good shoes......it would be awesome and I know I could do it, no sweat. Getting there is half the adventure, and the scenery is to die for. Now that I've been "a mile down" in the canyon......my preference is to be on the bottom of the Grand Canyon to actually soak in where you are at. The STARS are so amazing while you're on the canyon floor looking up at the thin strip of stars peeking in between the high canyon walls-I can't wait to go back! Kevin will copter in......and he'd have to rough the 2 mile hike to Havasu Falls, but I know he'd love it too. Do you have dates or anything yet Ken? Do you know who is all going on your end yet? How many and who? Is anyone else in your crew interested in hiking in with me? Or is that something I'm going to do alone, and will probably meet most others at the "cafe"? ha ha!! I certainly will copter out though......I don't want to hike it out after hiking in. Fill me in on any info you may have right now.....because time flies and time will draw near before we know it! Nicole --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Worley Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 --- roamndav <roamndav@verizon.net> wrote: > Hello once again all: > For those of you that are also members of the SW Auto Trails group, > this is a double post but... > I slowly but steadily manage to find 10 minutes here and there to > improve my web pages. From my journeys in July, please check out my > adventures along the old Historic 80 route that ran from Weatherford, > Texas through Mineral Wells before angling down TX 16 and rejoing > with the newer (1939) I-20 route. > Here is a link to my Texas 80 page where you can check out any of my > Texas adventures. > > http://bygonebyways.com/texas_80.htm > > Note: this historic and historic alternate 80 trips were fantastic > drives through oak-studded rolling green hills and pasture land with > occasional rock outcroppings and creeks. Truly areas not to be > missed if you have the time. > > Jeff in Tucson Jeff, I meant to tell you the last time you posted how much I enjoy and appreciate your Hwy 80 pages! Especially now, since my son Nick has started college at Texas Tech in Lubbock. We have driven to/from Dallas to Lubbock a few times now, and every time I try to take a different route. We returned last time on 180/80 from Snyder, through Anson, Albany, Breckenridge, Palo Pinto, Mineral Wells, etc. Its a very scenic drive for sure! We are returning again on November 5-7th for Family Weekend so we'll be going again. On a previous weekend getaway to Possum Kingdom we stopped in Mineral Wells at explored the exterior of the Baker Hotel extensively and took several rolls of film. That place really needs a billionare to come around and rescue/restore it. BTW what is the SW Auto Trails group ? Bob Worley - LoneStarBob _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JWM Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 To continue on the subject of welcome arches... Up until 1965, a traveler entering Greenville, Texas, was greeted by a welcome sign stating: Greenville- Welcome- The Blackest Land- the Whitest People. Not such a friendly greeting for the traveling black salesman... Will Harrison, a local farm loan agent, created the slogan in the early 1900s, affixing it to his business cards. The saying would have remained obscure had Harrison not met with President Woodrow Wilson in 1916, trying to gain support for a new highway through Greenville. Five years later, an electric sign studded with neon was erected over the new highway carrying the questionable slogan. The sign and the motto soon became the official line of the Greenville Chamber of Commerce, printed on business cards, stationary, and post cards. Despite perhaps its original innocent meaning ? an expression for being treated fairly- as in, he treated me white- the slogan was thought by some to carry racial overtones, and by the time of the Civil Rights Movement, considered downright racist. During a 1965 rally at Greenville, then Texas Governor John Connally suggested the sign be removed. Despite some resistance, the sign came down, only to be resurrected three years later. The new sign, sans neon lettering, substituted the objectionable text with the tepid phrase: The Greatest People. Without neon or the original slogan, the altered sign did little to spark the ardor of the townsfolk, and was removed again the next year. Today, brick signs at the east and west entries of town greet visitors with the simple and friendly phrase: Welcome to Greenville. John W. Murphey DrivetheOldSpanishTrail http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/swautotrails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drivewdave@aol.com Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 In a message dated 10/12/4 2:31:11 AM, you wrote: <<John loves the SW as I do, and found the American road group to be too eastern Central U.S centric if that's a word! >> Dave here, Like one of the moderators pointed out we all have our tastes, my evening bus ride down I-5 from Seattle to Tacoma last week was pure delight, superslab be damned. Also last week I saw a double DVD on Route 66, very well known. The usual interviews and segments on the various colorful establishments mostly got in the way for me, I mostly wanted to see footage of the actual road taken with the 'CaddyCam' while underway. Just a quick look at the colorful roadside spots will do, I want to go. Actually I wanted to see lots more roadside spots instead of concentrating on just a few. I assume the producers thought it would be more interesting to get some human interest stories going which is fine if that's what you like but the end result was not very satisfying for me, more like tantalizing, every time you get going on down the road you have to pull over again and yak yak yak. So like one of the candidates said, let's stop using labels, if someone seems whatever-centric maybe that's where they are from, when it comes to roads and highways I would hope to think I am omni-centric. Right now I am watching a PBS special on the first transcontinental road, the rail-road. happy trails and happy motoring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roamndav Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Hello Lone Star Bob! 1st of all, congrats on getting a young teenage fella to college! They'll either turn out great, or you'll kill 'em...doesn't seem to be much middle ground! I'm glad you enjoyed my pages. I hope to eventually get more pages on 80 as I've covered every nook & cranny I can out to Forney. But alas, I also have to work and for some reason, my wife doesn't seem to understand when I disapear into the office for weeks on end... You are so right about a billionaire needing to by the old Baker. What I don't understand is that they say they need more housing for the elderly etc., when they have huge structures like that that could easily be converted to a more modern use. Mineral wells is full of old brick structures and fine older neighborhoods. Looked like a very nice town. Hope I get back someday. As far as the SW Auto trails goes, that's another e-group started up by our friend John Murphy from Santa Fe. He has a fine site called "Drive the Old Spanish Trail http://www.drivetheost.com/index.html John loves the SW as I do, and found the American road group to be too eastern Central U.S centric if that's a word! So if you enjoy the SW roads, I'm sure John would like to see you sign up. That particular e-group is at http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/swau...?yguid=72603678 Hope to see ya on all the boards! Jeff in Tucson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rudyard Welborn Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Quinn and I paid a visit to Clarksdale, MS on our annual trek down highway 61 to the King Biscuit Blues Fest...we spent a considerable amount of excellent time in Clarksdale, MS (which Tim Steil discusses at length in his Highway 61 book)...one of the major deals there is the newly renovated Greyhound Station, which is now the Clarksdale visitors Center. They have renovated the neon "Greyhound" sign and turned it into a wonder (sorry, I haven't gotten scanning capabilities yet). Apparently, it is one of 4 stations of its type in the country. It is where folks like Muddy Waters and Koko Taylor put their bags on a bus and headed for Chicago...next stop was the Delta Blues Museum which had an excellent exhibit on the evolution of the Chicago Blues scene...we then went to the WROX Radio museum (one of the early delta blues stations) and met Bubba O'Keefe, who is responsible for a lot of the restoration effort in Clarksdale...he is a wonder to talk to and will talk your right arm off about everything Clarksdale. Across the street is Cat Head Delta Blues and Folk Art, which is an eclectic joint with books, records, and everything delta blues...the proprietor used to do the Blues in the Alley Show on KDHX in St. Louis...we took in a pimento cheese sandwich at the Delta Entertainment Blues Club, where Tallio Tazzi (the original owner) was happy to tell us everything he thought about baseball, football, and anything else we were curious about (at 85 he could beat me in a footrace!)...that night we took in the Ground Zero Blues Club, where you can leave your mark on everything that doesn't move, hear some great music, and see most of the people in Clarksdale...we saw "Super Chik'n Johnson" who is also featured in Tim's book on highway 61....if you aren't done jukin' after the Ground Zero, cross the railroad tracks and you will find Reds, which keeps the sounds going into the night...no guns or drugs, please...I HIGHLY recommend any roadie, blues enthusiast or anyone lookin' for a different slice of life visit Clarksdale, especially around October 7th, when you can take in the largest FREE Blues festival in the world takes place just 30 miles north of there in Helena, AR. Clarksdale is approx 80 miles South of Memphis on Highway 61. To get to Helena, you take 49 North (approx 20 miles north of Clarksdale), which crosses the river...you turn right on 49B when you get across the river to get there...Oh well all for now, as Super Chick'n would say: Somebody Shoot That Thaing! Tsingtao, Kip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Armored Truck Spill Paves Turnpike With Riches, in Small Change By JENNIFER MEDINA Published: October 5, 2004 The New York Times A New Jersey Turnpike spokesman called it a "twisted Atlantic City fantasy." An armored truck carrying $2 million in cash flipped over on the turnpike near Exit 12 in Linden during the evening rush last night, spilling tens of thousands of dollars in coins, said the spokesman, Joe Orlando. It was not known what caused the truck, owned by the Coin Depot Corporation of Elizabeth, N.J., to flip over at 7:05 p.m. as it headed north. But the effects were unmistakable. The turnpike was closed from Exits 8A to 12 for more than five hours as state troopers and turnpike maintenance workers used brooms to shovel quarters, dimes and nickels into plastic buckets. The turnpike is expected to be reopened this morning. "We're in the toll business, but nobody's ever seen this much coinage on the road in their life," said Mr. Orlando, who was at the scene. "They were down on their hands and knees, in the grass 100 feet away. It was just covered in change." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bakerhab@aol.com Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Here is the final report on Brain McKay's historic trip on Route 66 (until the book comes out, hint hint, Brian)! You had a wondrous journey Brian, and you were most generous in letting us all 'ride along.' Thanks for the memories, it was a privilege being your chronicler, little did I know, what a grand adventure awaited me (albeit virtual) following our chance meeting in Tulsa. Helen Baker ### From: "brian" <brians1930nash@y...> Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:37 pm Subject: home at last... Good Evening everyone. This is a first post for me and I would like to extend a great big thank-you to everyone on this site who assisted me on my recent trip on 66. All the good carma(sic) certainly helped me complete what was for me, a trip of a lifetime in my old friend, my 30 Nash. I have a lot of work to do documenting it and was advised that I would have plenty of time during the upcoming cold Canadian winter. I was not aware that posts were made regarding my trip and instead of being all alone, I was in fact being watched at every turn. LOL, it was a great experience to be approached by someone that knew everything and everywhere I had been. Some from England, Ohio California etc. Thanks again. There are people here who really make a positive contribution in travelers lives and do not receive nearly enough recognition. I would like to mention Helen and Harry Baker, Jim Conkle, Scott Piotrowski, Kevin and Lucie Hansel, Harley and Annabelle Russell and Mr. Jim Bracewell from the Nash Car Club of America, who from Chicago made it all possible. The Route 66 Associations along the way helped make it a trip to remember. Johnnie from the New Mexico Route 66 Association went way out of his way and his fall quarterly issue is a treat that all those who are interested in 66 should see. I will be writing about my adventure and hope to post all about it. Thanks, for now, Brian............. ### From: National Route 66 <national66@n...> Date: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:38 am Subject: Re: [route66] home at last... Glad you're back safely, Brian. Yes, thanks to Helen we had a running commentary on your fabulous trip. David Knudson Executive Director National Historic Route 66 Federation PO Box 1848, Lake Arrowhead, CA 92352 Phone: 909-336-6131 Fax: 909-336-1039 Email: national66@n..., Website: www.national66.org ### From: "bob lile" <crocodilelile@p...> Date: Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:53 pm Subject: Re: [route66] home at last... Brian, WOW! What a trip. A big THANKS to you & your Nash for bringing a lot of great publicity to The Road, & some wonderful people on it. All that from a Canadian. Glad I got to meet you in Tulsa. We all owe you a great deal. Sorry about the hail in our state. Next time, Texas will try to treat you better. Looking forward to seeing you in San Bernadoo next Sept. best wishes to a great adventurer. Crocodile Lile, Prez, Old Route 66 Assn. of Texas ### From: "brian" <brians1930nash@y...> Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 10:34 pm Subject: home at last Good Evening Bob, Sorry for the delay in replying to your kind message. I just got my new puter up and running and am having fun looking at the photos I managed to take. I had planned to take only a few with my old kodak but the foolishness of that got to me and I bought a digital in OK City and am now glad I did. The hailstorm/tornado was a special event on the trip and I wouldn't have missed it for the world. It was another "66 moment" and the old girl didn't hold it against me either so we're both off the hook. On the other hand ...she was pouting in Santa Rosa for three days wasn't she. Maybe, maybe,....naw, never. Thanks, Brian ### Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rudyard Welborn Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 The Fat Lady Hath Sung! I got a call from Bob Mullen at Bob's Gasoline Alley this morning, who verified that the sign made it to Cuba!!! He says that he wants to look at the sign to see what needs to be done but at this point intends to set it up in his little sign haven... I think we all need to be thankful for the Bob Mullen's out there who are willing to provide a haven for our displaced icons, and for the Lynn Rowe's and Mike Steidley's (Stanley signs) out there who are willing to give us a chance to save a piece of Route 66...I don't have an address for Lynn, but if you want to let Bob know that we appreciate his efforts: Bob Mullen Bob's Gasoline Alley P.O Box 263 Cuba, MO 65453 I will be talking to Bob after he gets a chance to look at the sign to see what he needs done. Your donations will go toward the sign and what his needs are with respect to the sign...thank you all so much! Tsingtao, Kip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim Conkle Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Well folks we are getting down to the wire and everything is looking good for a successful campaign. There are a few things we need to have from those that are going to DC. Have you made your room reservations with Hampton? If not please do so now as the hotel is filing up and we do not want to lose our block of rooms. Also when will you arrive, how many days/nights will you be staying and by what mode of travel are you using to get to DC? Have you set up any meetings with your repersentives in congress or the senate? And if not please do so and get me the information. Remember that these folks love publicity, so with that in mind also invite them to a media event on Monday evening place and time to be announced later. Having a count as to how many and who will be able to attend is very important. The media will come if they know who will be there and who will be there will come if they know the media is there. This sounds confusing but we need to work on the staffs of our elected officials to make them see the importance of this campaign of ours to their bosses. It is not too early and in fact could be too late to get commitments from some leaders but do not let that stop you from making contact now. Most of them are home for the holidays and this is a good time of the year to make contact with them and their staffs. I am setting up appointments with the folks at the NPS, BLM and Bureau of Interior. All of these meetings we would like to attend as a group if possible. Remember to also get in touch with your local leaders, chamber of commerce's, convention and visitors bureaus and who ever else can add to our efforts. The media must be involved from the start as having them doing stories on our reasons for the caravan and trip to DC will insure that we will be successful. The folks in DC read their hometown newspapers and listen to news from home. So give interviews, send out 'press releases' (we are working on one for you), and show your support, even if you are not able to go to DC. Those folks that are going, to represent all of Route 66, are doing so at their own expanse so anything you can add is important. Share this information with as many people that you can, act today, we need all the help we can get. It now looks as if I will be leaving on Sunday February the 8th. Here is the schedule, which could change, please see if you can set up meetings and media coverage as we go through your areas. Sunday night staying in Flagstaff, Monday night in Albuquerque, Tuesday night in Amarillo, Wednesday night in Tulsa, Thursday in St Louis. We will leave Friday and drive on to DC arriving sometime Sunday afternoon. If possible set up breakfast, lunch or dinner meetings for us as we go through your areas. We do not have the funds and no budget to cover a 'public relations firm' to do this work for us. So now is the time to get involved and add your voice to making this successful. So who is joining the Caravan all the way to DC and where will you join up with us? Who will be with us for just a day or so while we go through your area? Who wants to have us stop at their location even if it can only be for a short visit? So much to do to make this a successful campaign. Look over the list this is being sent to and if someone should be also on the list please forward this on to them and let me know who you send it to so that I can add them to the list. Also please add any thoughts, ideas or suggestions that will assist us in making this a very successful project. Thanks to all of you. James M. Conkle CEO Route 66 Preservation Foundation P O Box 290066 Phelan, CA 92329-0066 760 617 3991 cell 760 868 3320 760 868 8614 fax jim@cart66pf.org www.cart66pf.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jenniferrt66 Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Right now, my sketchy financial situation has been worseened by a faulty head gasket (design) on my Neon; and a skepticism to repair what could likely fail fast is making me lean toward buying a new car, even though the timing is completely not right for me! This unfortunately will prevent me from being able to afford to go to DC. However, I would be interested in joining the caravan for a day if you might possibly heading through Indy? Even if it's during the week, I could probably take a day off and join the caravan. When you have a firmer itinerary, would you post it? Thanks! Jennifer http://www.roadtripmemories.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Hi Jennifer, Good to hear from you but sorry to hear about your car. At this time it does look as if we will be taking I-70 from St Louis on in to DC. So we for sure will be going through your area and would love to see you and have you drive with us. I will keep you posted as we get closer. Thanks and have great holidays. James M. Conkle CEO Route 66 Preservation Foundation P O Box 290066 Phelan, CA 92329-0066 760 617 3991 cell 760 868 3320 760 868 8614 fax jim@cart66pf.org www.cart66pf.org -----Original Message----- From: jenniferrt66 [mailto:jabremer66@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 1:14 PM To: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AMERICAN_ROAD] Re: DC Caravan Right now, my sketchy financial situation has been worseened by a faulty head gasket (design) on my Neon; and a skepticism to repair what could likely fail fast is making me lean toward buying a new car, even though the timing is completely not right for me! This unfortunately will prevent me from being able to afford to go to DC. However, I would be interested in joining the caravan for a day if you might possibly heading through Indy? Even if it's during the week, I could probably take a day off and join the caravan. When you have a firmer itinerary, would you post it? Thanks! Jennifer http://www.roadtripmemories.com Visit our homepage at: http://www.mockturtlepress.com To subscribe to AMERICAN ROAD magazine, PHONE TOLL-FREE 1-877-285-5434 WITH YOUR ORDER TODAY! Or send payment to: Mock Turtle Press, PO Box 3168, Lynnwood, WA 98046-3168 SUBSCRIPTION RATES: 1 year (4 issues) for $15.95 (save $3.85 off the newsstand price!) 2 years (8 issues) for $27.95 (save $11.65 off the newsstand price!) For questions about the list, contact: AMERICAN_ROAD-owner@yahoogroups.com To SUBSCRIBE to this group, send an email to: AMERICAN_ROAD-subscribe@yahoogroups.comTo POST a message via e-mail, send it to: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AMERICAN_ROAD/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: AMERICAN_ROAD-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Allen Bourgeois Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 ----- Original Message ----- From: jenniferrt66 To: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 3:14 PM Subject: [AMERICAN_ROAD] Re: DC Caravan Right now, my sketchy financial situation has been worseened by a faulty head gasket (design) on my Neon; and a skepticism to repair what could likely fail fast is making me lean toward buying a new car, even though the timing is completely not right for me! This unfortunately will prevent me from being able to afford to go to DC. However, I would be interested in joining the caravan for a day if you might possibly heading through Indy? Even if it's during the week, I could probably take a day off and join the caravan. When you have a firmer itinerary, would you post it? Thanks! Jennifer http://www.roadtripmemories.com Visit our homepage at: http://www.mockturtlepress.com To subscribe to AMERICAN ROAD magazine, PHONE TOLL-FREE 1-877-285-5434 WITH YOUR ORDER TODAY! Or send payment to: Mock Turtle Press, PO Box 3168, Lynnwood, WA 98046-3168 SUBSCRIPTION RATES: 1 year (4 issues) for $15.95 (save $3.85 off the newsstand price!) 2 years (8 issues) for $27.95 (save $11.65 off the newsstand price!) For questions about the list, contact: AMERICAN_ROAD-owner@yahoogroups.com To SUBSCRIBE to this group, send an email to: AMERICAN_ROAD-subscribe@yahoogroups.comTo POST a message via e-mail, send it to: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AMERICAN_ROAD/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: AMERICAN_ROAD-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rwarn17588 Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Note: Anyone who liked listening to music while cruising Route 66 will mourn this loss. <start clip> Dave Dudley Dead at 75 "Six Days on the Road" Defined the Truck Driving Song By: Calvin Gilbert Dave Dudley, best known for the truck driving anthem "Six Days on the Road," is dead at the age of 75. Born David Darwin Pedruska on May 3, 1928, in Spencer, Wis., Dudley was raised in Stevens Point, Wis., and played on semi-pro baseball teams until an arm injury forced an end to his athletic career in 1950. Moving toward a career in country music, he became a radio disc jockey, working at stations in Wisconsin, Iowa, Idaho and Minnesota and formed the Dave Dudley Trio in 1953. Dudley was sidelined for several months in 1960 after being struck by a car while loading equipment following a performance in Minneapolis. Dudley first hit the Billboard country singles chart in 1961 with "Maybe I Do" on Vee Records. Charting again a year later with "Under Cover of the Night" on the Jubilee label, he spent two weeks at No. 2 on the country charts with his 1963 recording of "Six Days on the Road" on the independent Golden Wing label. Written by Earl Greene and Earl Montgomery, the song was passed along to Dudley by Jimmy C. Newman. Although Dudley was initially reluctant to record the up-tempo song, "Six Days on the Road" helped him land a recording contract with Mercury Records. Building his career on truck driving songs, Dudley charted 41 singles on the Billboard country chart, including "Truck Drivin' Son-of-a-Gun," "There Ain't No Easy Run," "One More Mile," "Trucker's Prayer" and "Truck Driver's Waltz." He scored his only No. 1 hit with "The Pool Shark," a 1970 duet with Mercury labelmate Tom T. Hall. Dudley and Hall also charted a follow-up single, "Day Drinking." Dudley's chart success continued through the '70s on a variety of labels including Mercury, Rice and United Artists. His last charted single, "Rolaids, Doan's Pills and Preparation H," was released in 1980. Through his music, Dudley helped create an image of the American trucker that influenced several films and TV shows from the '70s, including Smokey and the Bandit and Movin' On. With his booming voice and a twanging lead guitar, Dudley's recording of "Six Days on the Road" also had an impact on a new generation of musicians. The song was later recorded by Gram Parsons (both as a solo artist and with the Flying Burrito Brothers), Steve Earle, George Thorogood & the Destroyers and Sawyer Brown. <end clip> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest big_ugly_mich@yahoo.com Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Some of my first road trips were on Trailways buses at Cherry Point, unless you count bike rides for which I got in trouble as a kid because I got home late. --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, Alex Burr <hester_nec@y...> wrote: > I spent 1959 t0 July 1976 (after a year in the > Marine reserve and 4 years in the Navy) in the outfit > that takes care of the jarheads - the Coast Guard. > LOL > > Hudsonly, > Alex B > > --- jim <jim@c...> wrote: > > Yo Bro, > > > > So another jarhead is a roadie too. I love it! > > > > Are you aware that there are many of us on the road? > > Michael Wallis to name > > one. I was in from 57 to 65. > > > > So stay in touch, > > > > James M. Conkle > > CEO > > Route 66 Preservation Foundation > > P O Box 290066 > > Phelan, CA 92329-0066 > > 760 617 3991 cell > > 760 868 3320 > > 760 868 8614 fax > > jim@c... > > www.cart66pf.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: big_ugly_mich@y... > > [mailto:big_ugly_mich@y...] > > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 9:38 AM > > To: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AMERICAN_ROAD] Re: Our awesome Sunday > > Arizona Drive > > > > Isn't that the truth? Back in 1979, when I was in > > the Marine Corps in > > Cherry Point, North Carolina, we got blasted with 18 > > inches > > overnight. I never saw so much as a flake in the > > three years plus > > that I was there, and Milwaukee, my home town, got > > NONE (although it > > was bitter cold that year). > > > > --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, Glenn > > <glenninvegas@j...> wrote: > > > > > > Alex, Be careful where you go to escape the snow. > > I have posted > > some pix of the "Great Las Vegas Snow" last week at > > the site below. > > We got 2 inches and it actually lasted for a few > > hours. > > > > > > Glenn Adams > > > glenninvegas@j... > > > http://www.lasvegasregion.com > > > > > > -- Alex Burr <hester_nec@y...> wrote: > > > As winter presses on, we find stories like this > > a > > > torture - those of us who live up north in the > > frost > > > belt. Cabin fever is beginning to set in and we > > know, > > > especially us New Englanders (unless we have fled > > the > > > snow country), have another 3, 4 or maybe 5, > > months of > > > this interminable snow. Only way we are going to > > get > > > out and do a road trip is with a 4wd truck, > > chains, > > > winch, credit card and AAA!!! > > > > > > When we read these stories, ah, we long for > > summer > > > weather. > > > > > > I mentioned some of us fled the snow country - > > I'm > > > sitting here in Memphis, it's 37 degrees and > > overcast > > > - but THERE'S NO DAMNED SNOW ON THE GROUND!!!!! > > So > > > we're going to get out of the house in a day or > > two > > > and explore some of the roads around here - at > > least > > > finish up with the Millington - Memphis segment. > > Next > > > week we'll be headed for West Arkansas to visit a > > > buddy - if we time it right, maybe we'll run old U > > S > > > 70 between Little Rock and Memphis on the way > > back. > > > > > > See you on the road sometime. Happy Traveling > > > > > > Hudsonly, > > > Alex B > > > > > > --- Nicole <arizona66nms@y...> wrote: > > > > Hi all- > > > > > > > > I've been itchin' and itchin' and itchin' to hit > > the > > > > road these past couple of months. I moved out > > here > > > > to do exactly that, and it seems as though it's > > the > > > > last thing I get to do these days! > > > > > > > > So instead of sleeping till the crack of noon on > > > > Sundays like we normally do....we were up and > > going > > > > at 9:00 a.m. this past Sunday, and my first > > thought > > > > was "oh my gosh....we GOTTA go somewhere!!" > > After > > > > hearing grumblings about Sunday football and > > "I'm > > > > still tired" from Kevin we got ready and hopped > > in > > > > the car and pulled out the map, and picked > > Sedona. > > > > (He doesn't like it when I threaten to wander > > off on > > > > the road on my own! ha ha!!) Well, of course we > > > > couldn't take the superslab all the way > > > > there.....that would take away from the whole > > > > purpose of taking the trip in the first place. > > So > > > > we left Bullhead City around 10 and hit Highway > > 68 > > > > on through Kingman (gas is no longer cheaper > > there > > > > like it used to be....in case any of you were > > > > passing through figuring on gassing up there), > > and > > > > hit I-40 until Ash Fork, then went South on > > through > > > > Paulden, Chino Valley and touching the tip of > > > > Prescott till we forked off on 89-A.....on > > through > > > > Jerome, Camp Verde, Cottonwood, and finally > > Sedona. > > > > I > > > > absolutely LOVE that road. The windy, steep, > > > > relaxing, and unbelievably scenic mountain road > > that > > > > takes you there is really something else. I > > highly > > > > recommend it for anyone traveling through > > Arizona > > > > looking for a great road adventure. > > > > > > > > The higher up we went in elevation, the more > > patches > > > > of snow you'd see. I miss the snow, and it's > > nice > > > > to see it once in a while. I sure do appreciate > > it > > > > more than I did before. Not to mention the over > > > > abundance of green trees surrounding you as you > > take > > > > this route. There is a spot along the road, > > just > > > > before Jerome where the view can make one go off > > the > > > > road if you aren't careful. It's so > > > > awesome......you're up in the mountains, > > surrounded > > > > by forest, and nothing but green.....and in > > front of > > > > you way off in the distance is BAM.....the most > > > > beautiful view of Red Rock country you'd ever > > see. > > > > Just like at Sunset Crater north of Flagstaff > > when > > > > you go over the bend while you're in the middle > > of > > > > the forest, and in front of you is the Painted > > > > Desert. Two terrains meeting as one, and the > > most > > > > beautiful thing ever. It's COLD right now in > > these > > > > parts, so I made sure to bring along the winter > > > > coats and gloves (which Kevin laughed at me for > > > > until we hit Sedona and started whining about > > > > how cold it was). I also knew we'd be topping > > out > > > > at Flag on the way home....and Flag is pretty > > much > > > > Michigan with mountains right now, so I knew we > > had > > > > to be prepared! So we mosey on down 89-A, > > through > > > > Jerome, which we didn't make any stops at....and > > I > > > > keep saying I have to get there and do some > > > > exploring. What a cool little town that is. It > > was > > > > too cold to do anything extensive in the > > outdoors > > > > there, so I am determined to get back there this > > > === message truncated === > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest big_ugly_mich@yahoo.com Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 We're back, and the hotel we went to check out wouldn't let her in a whirpool suite. We'll probably hit another campsite so she can go. We just take out all our stuff and sleep in the back of the van. Jess gets a seat all to herself and her toys. --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, big_ugly_mich@y... wrote: > We wanted to have a party for our dog's sixth birthday, but coudn't. > We're planning one for her six and a half birthday, and also having > the Big Six Road Trip as soon as I go off line and grab a shower. I > just got a long weekend and we're not wasting it. > > Last summer, she went camping with us and had a better time than we > did. She met a biker who was there for Harley Davidson's 100th > birthday ride in and begged off him. He petted her, but didn't have > anything to eat, so we're stuck with her. > > I'll post some pictures when we get back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alex Burr Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Today we started looking at U S 51 alignments in Memphis. We started our search this morning by crossing the current alignment at Danny Thomas Blvd and Millington Road in the Frayser section - the northern part of Memphis. Millington Road proceeds straight across Frayser Blvd and up a hill to an intersection at Whitney Road. At this point it bears right down hill and intersects, again, with Danny Thomas Blvd. It is at this point the true alignment becomes questionable. If one looks at it from this intersection, it seems logical that you would cross DT Blvd and proceed straight ahead on Whitney. This continues on past the old International Harvester plant on your right at Harvester Lane. Whitney continues on, becoming N. 2nd Street at the General Dewitt Spain airport, where it bears left. On Whitney are several buildings that appear to date from the 1940's, possibly the 1950's. The same on 2nd, once you get down around Chelsea. N. 2nd Street crosses the Wolf River and from there is an almost straight run into downtown Memphis, with a slight curve at Chelsea Avenue. Now here's the conundrum - I'm looking at a street map of Memphis, date unknown (but the interstates are shown so it's later than the mid-1970's). An inset map showing the downtown area shows 51 assigned to both 2nd and 3rd street (2nd is one way south; 3rd is one way north). Ok, that seems to indicate that this was the original alignment, way back whenever. However, Danny Thomas Blvd is shows as 51 to North Parkway, then shifts west a block or two on Auction Ave (which is the western extension of N. Parkway). Then it is shown as TRK. 51 south to Linden, where it turns east as 51/78. At this point it is 2 or 3 blocks west of 2nd and 3rd Streets. The intown 51 on 2nd/3rd would also turn east on Linden, I would assume. An interesting aside here is that Danny Thomas Blvd (TRK 51) turns into Wellington Street somewhere between Jefferson and Court, maybe at Jefferson or maybe Court Ave. On Linden 51/78, along with TRK 51, continues east to Lamar, while TRK 51 turns south about two blocks to E. H. Crump Blvd. Most likely turns east there to Lamar. 51/78 continue co-signed under I-240 to Bellvue, where 51 is shown turning south, while 78 continues SE down Lamar Avenue. 51 continues south to South Parkway East (don't ask - there's also an East Parkway North, and East Parkway South in town) where it becomes Elvis Presley Blvd to the TN/MS line. We followed 2nd Street, both N. 2nd and 2nd, into town to Beal Street, where we turned east on Beal back to Danny Thomas Blvd due to time constraints. At the corner of 2nd and Union Avenue we have no less than 4 of the 7 U S highways coming together - 51, 64, 70 and 79. This occurs again on E. H. Crump Blvd with 61, 64, 70 and 79. 78 crosses 51 just east of I-240 and apparently ends at that point. I wonder if that mysterious extension of U S 63 that extended a mile into Memphis until discontinued in 1999 linked to 78. When we returned to Danny Thomas Blvd we turned north and retraced our path north to Frayser. To the north of I-40 we found several buildings whose style suggests the 1940's, plus one that is reminiscent of the 1930's art deco style. It's hard to stop for photo's in here - the neighborhoods aren't the best and there are no shoulders. There are two bridges over the Wolf River a little further north whose guard rails are of the 1940's, perhaps 1930's style - I did get some photos of those as best I could. Talking with my daughter, who has lived in Memphis most of her life, she says she remembers the current 51 alignment between Memphis and Millington being a single 2 lane road and that she remembers the north bound 2 lane of today beomg built (she was born (in 1958). So if she remembers it, it would seem that the road was made a 4 lane divided limited access sometime in the 1960's. She also remembers that the south bound 2-lane part of the current alignment was the original road. I'm watching an "antique" 1937 Memphis street map on ebay at the moment - if I'm fortunate to get it, this should answer several questions. Failing that, I happened to remember that in my collection of exotic memorabilia (??) at home I have a 1930's TN/KY (they always seem to put the two states together) road map with a map of Memphis in it. So that will tell us something. Labeling of 2nd and 3rd streets on the map I have to hand does seem to indicate that 2nd street was the original US 51 alignment before the current road was built. Before we leave for New England we will try to get a few more photos of the downtown area - we'd like to get one of the Union Ave/2nd street intersection with the 3 (64, 70, 79) sign and we spotted a Cafe 61 further down - showing a shield with 61 on it for their logo. More to come. Happy traveling. Hudsonly, Alex B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alex Burr Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 A short while ago I posted some photos I had taken near Brinkley, Arkansas, of a motel with garages between each unit. I was looking at a 1941 AAA Western States Tour Book I have in my research collection and came across the following in the Arkansas section: "Brinkley - Cottage Inn, south edge of town on U. S. 70. An attractive court of 12 units, each with private bathroom, three with tub bath; four units with two double beds and four with seperate bedrooms; five cottages are air conditioned; six have sleeping porches; two have kitchenettes; gas plates for cooking. Private locked garages. Gas heat. Rates, $2 for two persons, $2.50 to $3.50 for fouor persons. Sandwich shop in connection. Resturants convienient. Filling station. H. L. Blackman, Owner" From the location and reference to "Private locked garages" I'd say that would have to be the place. Hudsonly, Alex B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Doug Pappas Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 I've just created a series of pages honoring the memory of one of Pennsylvania's signature roadside attractions, the Grand View Ship Hotel on the Lincoln Highway. They begin at http://www.roadsidephotos.com/LH/grandview.htm . Enjoy! - Doug Pappas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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