Welcome!

October 3, 2005

Just to let everyone know that starting on September 17 two Police Officers

from London will be riding their bikes on Route 66 from Los Angeles to

Chicago. Charles and Kevan are doing this to support the Starlight

Children’s Foundation. Check out HYPERLINK

"http://www.miles4smiles.co.uk/"www.miles4smiles.co.uk for more information.

I have been working with them for over a year in getting this set up. Now is

the time to announce to the Route 66 Community to ask that you too get

involved. They will need lodging and meals as they go. Plus any media

coverage you can get for them. I recommend that you get in touch with all of

your Police agencies and share this with them. There is a code of the badge

where all law enforcement people are brothers/sisters and usually want to

support fellow officers. This would be a great opportunity for each of you

to bring them together.

They are also looking for folks to ride with them as they move east on Route

66. They will be at the Rendezvous on Friday the 16th and for those of you

that will be at the luncheon you will get to meet them.

I will be adding them to my lunch attendees David.

Please get in touch with them to offer your assistance and support.

Thanks

James M. Conkle

Executive Director

California Route 66 Preservation Foundation

P O Box 290066

Phelan, CA 92329-0066

760 617 3991 cell

760 868 3320

760 868 8614 fax

jim@cart66pf.org

www.cart66pf.org

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October 3, 2005

Hello Fellow Roadies,

Last week I had the opportunity to accompany Jim Conkle and fellow

preservationists to Washington DC for the support of the Route 66

Corridor Act and the release of the appropriated money. I think this

is extremely important not only for Route 66 but also for all the

historic highways and byways in America. Route 66 has "brand

recognition" and sometimes it seems to over shadow the other great

historic roads. But when it comes to preservation of our historic

roads, Route 66 will be the one to lead the way because of this

celebrated status. It is crucial that preservation wins out on the

Route 66 so we can turn our attention to the other historic roads. I

went to Washington DC to show my support for Route 66 and to

chronicle the events as they unfolded on our web site. I know I'm

running a little behind on the DC Trip web site. I was hoping to

update some pages from Washington DC as the events unfolded but

things didn't work out. Our little group packed in some long hours

and by the time I got back to my room it was late and I was beat.

Anyhow, I've finally completed the Washington DC Trip web site. It

was an unbelievable experience and one that did a lot of good for

our Route 66 preservation cause which in the end will help all

historic highways I think. I was happily surprised by all the

positive feedback we got for Route 66 from everyone one we talked

to. I think the professionalism and enthusiasm of our group

impressed the people we talked to on Capitol Hill also. All in all I

think we've opened some pretty important doors for our cause. I

could go on and on about all the great things that happened on our

trip to Washington DC but I won't. Instead I'll direct you to the

web site that I've finally uploaded and let you see for yourself. I

have a feeling this is the first trip of many, in fact Jim Conkle

and Glen Duncan will be going back to Washington DC for the

Preservation Action Lobby Day with the National Trust for Historic

Preservation in March. But for now I hope you'll take a peek at what

Jim Conkle, Glen Duncan, Michael Wallis, Dawn Welch, Patty Kuhn,

Steve Henthorn, Diana Hutton and I did last week. If some of those

names are unfamiliar to you they won't be after you check out the

web site. You can see how the Washington DC trip went at:

http://www.cart66pf.org/DC/

I hope you enjoy. And remember – Keep on Truckin' America's Historic

Highways!

Guy Randall

http://www.theroadwanderer.net/

October 3, 2005

Thanks for posting that Guy...I was wondering how it turned out.

Great to hear! I hope that more funds will be released and more

businesses able to utilize them.

Terrific site! Thanks again for your tireless (but not thankless!)

efforts!

Jennifer

--- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "grandall52" <grandall@c...>

wrote:

> Hello Fellow Roadies,

>

> Last week I had the opportunity to accompany Jim Conkle and fellow

> preservationists to Washington DC for the support of the Route 66

> Corridor Act and the release of the appropriated money. I think

this

> is extremely important not only for Route 66 but also for all the

> historic highways and byways in America. Route 66 has "brand

> recognition" and sometimes it seems to over shadow the other great

> historic roads. But when it comes to preservation of our historic

> roads, Route 66 will be the one to lead the way because of this

> celebrated status. It is crucial that preservation wins out on the

> Route 66 so we can turn our attention to the other historic roads.

I

> went to Washington DC to show my support for Route 66 and to

> chronicle the events as they unfolded on our web site. I know I'm

> running a little behind on the DC Trip web site. I was hoping to

> update some pages from Washington DC as the events unfolded but

> things didn't work out. Our little group packed in some long hours

> and by the time I got back to my room it was late and I was beat.

> Anyhow, I've finally completed the Washington DC Trip web site. It

> was an unbelievable experience and one that did a lot of good for

> our Route 66 preservation cause which in the end will help all

> historic highways I think. I was happily surprised by all the

> positive feedback we got for Route 66 from everyone one we talked

> to. I think the professionalism and enthusiasm of our group

> impressed the people we talked to on Capitol Hill also. All in all

I

> think we've opened some pretty important doors for our cause. I

> could go on and on about all the great things that happened on our

> trip to Washington DC but I won't. Instead I'll direct you to the

> web site that I've finally uploaded and let you see for yourself. I

> have a feeling this is the first trip of many, in fact Jim Conkle

> and Glen Duncan will be going back to Washington DC for the

> Preservation Action Lobby Day with the National Trust for Historic

> Preservation in March. But for now I hope you'll take a peek at

what

> Jim Conkle, Glen Duncan, Michael Wallis, Dawn Welch, Patty Kuhn,

> Steve Henthorn, Diana Hutton and I did last week. If some of those

> names are unfamiliar to you they won't be after you check out the

> web site. You can see how the Washington DC trip went at:

>

> http://www.cart66pf.org/DC/

>

> I hope you enjoy. And remember – Keep on Truckin' America's

Historic

> Highways!

>

> Guy Randall

> http://www.theroadwanderer.net/

October 3, 2005

Guy did an excellent job with the Web site.

Speaking of great Webmasters, Jennifer has updated the Friends of the

Mother Road Web site to include an action alert regarding the Meadow Gold

sign on Route 66 in Tulsa. If you want the dirt, go to:

http://friendsofthemotherroad.org/meadowgold.htm

Jennifer does a fantastic job of helping us get the word out about preservation

with our Web site.

Emily

October 3, 2005

I just got a 1934 Missouri road map - the city map of St. Louis

shows the following bridges:

To the north - Chain of Rocks carrying U S 66 and Byp. 40;

Next - the McKinley Bridge coming in from Madison and Venice to

Salisbury Street;

Next moving south - the Eads Bridge coming off of Broadway in E. St.

Louis to Washington Street in St. Louis;

Last to the south - the "Muncipal Toll Bridge" coming off 10th Street

in E. St. Louis to Choteau Avenue in St. Louis. Passes near the

Cahokia Power Plant in EStL and carries, according to the map, U S

Routes 40, 50, City 66 and 67.

City 66 is shown in E. St. Louis with 67 and 40 coming down 9th St.,

the a jog onto 10th Street, the across the Municipa bridge, turning

left on 12th Street, which turns into Gravois Avenue, then into New

Watson. Another routing is shown as City 66 running south from the

Chain of Rocks Bridge down Riverview Drive, Broadway, Calvery,

Florissanatand joining the other City 66 at the end of the Municipal

Bridge;

50 turns into Manchester Road;

City 40 splits off 40 as By-Pass 40 to the east in Troy, IL. It

runs down Olive St., in St. Louis, as City 40, turns north on Union

Blvd and joins 40 (which is shown running down Cass Ave which turns

into Page Avenue;

By-pass 40 co-signs with 66 across the Chain of Rocks, then down

Lindberg Blvd to Natural Bridge Road out by the now names St. Louis

International Airport;

67 runs down 7th/Broadway/Davis/Lemay Ferry Road.

In my 1941 Western States AAA tour guide book a map of St. Louis

shows a 5th bridge being under construction crossing just north of

Eads bridge off St. Clair Avenue near 9th St in EStL connecting to

Broadway in St. Louis.

I looked up the Municipal Toll Bridge to see what info I could find

- all I could find was that it was re-named the Douglas MacArthur

Bridge in 1942.

Sure would have hated to try and follow these convolutions thru St.

Louis with a hangover!!! LOL

Hudsonly,

Alex B

October 3, 2005

Hi All -

Sounds like a great map. Any chance you could scan that map to an image

for the rest of us?

Frank.

October 4, 2005

Frank,

Scanned the St. Louis city map from the 1934

Missouri map and posted it on the American Roads

egroup site.

Hudsonly,

Alex B

--- "Frank P. Maloney" <frank.maloney@villanova.edu>

wrote:

> Hi All -

>

> Sounds like a great map. Any chance you could scan

> that map to an image

> for the rest of us?

>

> Frank.

>

__________________________________

Do you Yahoo!?

Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.

http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

October 4, 2005

Greetings!

I received a number of e-mails in response to the AMERICAN

ROAD SPRING 2005 E-NEWSLETTER. We love hearing from

you . . . your positive feedback keeps us going!

From the responses, it sounds as if many of you have already

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-PARK PLACE--YOUR CURBSIDE CALENDAR-Updated

AMERICAN ROAD TWO-LANE TRIVIA CONTEST WINNER:

ALEX BURR, of Maine was the fourth person to respond to me

via with the correct answer to the trivia question below. Alex wins

a copy of the Playground Trail, by Lee and Jane Whiteley. (Retail

value $19.95).

The question was: What is the name of the possum—a

character in Walt Kelly's cartoon strip set in the Okefenokee

swamp?

The answer, found in AMERICAN ROAD vol. 2, issue 4: POGO.

WAY TO GO ALEX!

For all the rest of those folks that submitted a correct answer--

we'll have another TWO LANE TRIVIA in the Summer 2005 E-

newsletter. However, there is another contest, in the SPRING

2005 issue of AMERICAN ROAD--"WHO'S DRIVING?". Be sure

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Show your support for traveling America's backroads on Friday,

March 11. AMERICAN ROAD Executive Editor, Thomas Repp, is

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Tune your radio to 760 AM (WJR can be heard in approximately

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CLASSIFIED LISTINGS are soon to be available in AMERICAN

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print editions for $75.00 (up to 40 words).

======

LAKE ERIE COASTAL OHIO TOUR. Explore lighthouses,

maritime museums, natural areas, beaches and wineries along

the Lake Erie shoreline stretching from Conneaut to Toledo.

Take a ferryboat to the Lake Erie Islands. Enjoy the excitement of

Cleveland and Toledo. Experience the charm of quaint nautical

villages. Visit http://www.coastalohio.com to learn more.

======

MOBIL TRAVEL GUIDE provides consumers recommendations

they can trust! Visit http://www.mobiltravelguide.com to order the

new NASCAR Travel Planner (2005), Regional Travel Planners

(2005), and the America's Byways series. While you're online

don't miss the Road Trip Planner options to help customize your

trip and book hotel reservations.

======

NATIONAL HISTORIC ROUTE 66 FEDERATION. CHECK OUT

OUR WEBSITE http://www.national66.org • Find answers to

frequently asked questions about Route 66 • Shop for dozens of

Route 66 items • Make reservations for Route 66 events • Look

through the Route 66 photo and vintage postcard galleries • Join

the National Historic Route 66 Federation.

======

NEBRASKA: Get your free Nebraska travel packet with

information on attractions, frontier adventures, natural wonders,

arts and culture, scenic byways, weekend getaways, golf,

lodgings, things to see & do, plus over a thousand festivals and

events. Nebraska. Possibilities...endless. Call 1-877-

NEBRASKA for a free travel packet, or on the Web at

http://www.VisitNebraska.org

======

ROADSIDE GALLERY: In 25 years of traveling quiet back roads

that amble through small towns and cities, Marty Garfinkel

accomplished his goal of rescuing on 35mm film, the nostalgic

past of Mid-Century Americana. Created in 2003, at the request

of friends and admirers, ROADSIDE GALLERY offers a selection

of Giclee prints that can be customized to fit home or business.

Printed on canvas or fine art paper, the images make owning an

interesting piece of art affordable.

http://www.roadsidegallery.com.. ======

TONY CRAIG ART GALLERY: Take an artistic virtual tour of

America's highways (diners, motels, milling companies and lots

of neon)! ! Original watercolor paintings and prints featuring

roadside America. Log on to: http://www.tonycraig.net..

======

GET YOUR KICKS IN TUCUMCARI ON HISTORIC ROUTE 66!

Don't miss the Dinosaur Museum, Historical Museum, Route 66

Memorial, neon signs, and the nation's longest Route 66 mural.

Tour the town to see the murals of our area. Travel to Ute or

Conchas Lake and along the Scenic Byways to see unique

landscapes and wildlife. Contact the Chamber at 505-461-1694

for information or visit http://www.tucumcarinm.com..

======

101 CAFE: Get a free nostalgia trip on Historic Highway 101 by

way of the 101 Cafe. This site will educate, entertain and connect

you to Historic Highway 101 History, Images, Attractions, Natural

wonders, Arts and Surf culture, Lodgings, Things to See & Do.

http://www.101cafe.net..

======

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MANY THANKS TO THE ADVERTISERS IN AMERICAN ROAD

They help make AMERICAN ROAD possible. When you patronize

them be sure to tell them you saw them in AMERICAN ROAD:

(Listed alphabetically)

Austin, Nevada

- http://www.austinnevada.com

Chicago Southland Convention & Visitors Bureau

- http://www.visitchicagosouthland.com

Cycle Barn

- http://www.cyclebarn.com

Ely Northern Railway/White Pine Chamber

- http://www.nnry.com/elycc@whitepinechamber.com

Fallon Convention and Tourism Authority

- http://www.fallontourism.com

Flashback Malt Shoppe & Gifts

- http://www.flashbackinseaside.com

International Selkirk Loop

- http://www.selkirkloop.org

Jeff Herman Sign Collector

- jmnruf@aol.com

John Claar's Hitching Post

-http://www.mockturtlepress.com/jcintroduction.html

Lincoln Highway Association Annual Conference

- http://www.lincolnhighway.com

Mobil Travel Guide

- http://www.mobiltravelguide.com

Motorcycle 101

- http://www.soundrider.com

Munger Moss Motel

- http://www.mungermoss.com

National Historic Route 66 Federation

- http://www.national66.org

Nebraska Department of Tourism

- http://www.visitnebraska.org

Ohio Lincoln Highway Historic Byway

- http://www.historicbyway.com

101 Cafe

-http://www.101cafe.net

Ollie's Shirt Factory

Paccom Films

- http://www.66films.com

Pony Express Territory

- http://www.ponyexpressnevada.com

Ridge Route: The Road That United California

- http://www/.ridgeroute.com

Roadside Gallery

-http://www.roadsidegallery.com

Roadworks Gifts & Souvenirs

- http://www.route66roadworks.com

Route 66 Mother Road Museum

- http://www.barstow66museum.itgo.com

Route 66: The Romance of the West

- http://www.mockturtlepress.com

Seaside Wheels and Waves/Muscle Beach Cruz

-http://www.flashbackinseaside.com

Stackpole Books

- http://www.stackpolebooks.com

Tony Craig Art Gallery

- http://www.tonycraig.net

Tucumcari on 66

- http://www.tucumcarinm.com

Twisters 50s Soda Fountain

- http://www.rout66place.com

PARK PLACE: Your curbside calendar (to submit your events for

the calendar e-mail becky@mockturtlepress.com. Calendar

listings are offered on a first come, first serve basis.)

March 13, Las Vegas, Nev.—NASCAR UAW-DAIMLER

CHRYSLER 400 will host NASCAR's top racer's, including Las

Vegas native and 2004 Nextel Cup Champion Kurt Busch, will

convene in Las Vegas for part of the Nextel Cup Series. As in

years past, more than 140,000 spectators are expected to attend

the event at the Las Vegas Motor Speedway.

http://www.nascar.com/races/tracks/las/..

March 29, Seattle, Wash.—SIXTEENTH ANNUAL ANTHONY'S

OYSTER OLYMPICS fundraiser benefiting the Puget

Soundkeeper Alliance. Celebrating 16 years of unabashed

bivalve boosting to support a clean Puget Sound. Taste 20

varieties of local oysters--the best oysters in the world--with

Washington wines and Red Hook ales. Fun for all: Celebrity

Oyster Slurp, restaurant competitions, shucking championship,

Washington's largest oyster contest, oyster-themed "fashion"

judging, oyster art, silent auction and more. Oysters, oysters,

oysters--nude, stewed and BBQ-ed--but you don't have to

be an oyster lover to join the fun. Bountiful buffet by Anthony's.

Tickets: $85. Advance purchase only. For tickets contact the

Puget Soundkeeper Alliance: 206-297-7002. http://

www.pugetsoundkeeper.org/

April 7-10, Taos, NM.—New Mexico Heritage Preservation

Alliance. Taos Convention Center. The conference is the best

resource for professional and amateur preservationists and

historians in the state of New Mexico. See http://

www.nmheritage.org for details.

April 10. Sopchoppy, Flor.—Sopchoppy Worm Gruntin' Festival.

From 8:00 AM to 11:00 PM there will be live music and

entertainment for the family including the Worm Grunter's 5K

Race and the crowning of Worm Monarch! In the evening,dance

under the stars at the Worm Grunter's Ball. A donation is

welcomed at the dance. www.wakullacounty.com/

worm_festival.htm for details.

April 17, Phoenix, Ariz.—The Copperstate 1000, organized by the

Museum's Men's Arts Council, is an annual 4-day vintage auto

rally that travels 1,000 miles through Arizona, alternating its route

either through the high country in the north, or through the

Sonoran desert in the south. This year, the route will travel

through northern and western Arizona to Las Vegas, Nevada and

return to Scottsdale. Proceeds from the annual Copperstate

1000 benefit Phoenix Art Museum.call (602) 307-2060 or visit

the Copperstate 1000 web site at http://

www.copperstate1000.com.

April 29-May 1. Seligman, Ariz.—Historic Route 66 Association of

Arizona's 18th Annual Fun Run. This three-day event begins in

Seligman and travels 140 miles of Route 66 to Topock/Golden

Shores. Vehicle registration is open to "anything with wheels that

runs in 2005!" You'll enjoy the classic cars, fabulous food, and

the drive! Phone( 928) 753-5001 or see http:www.azrt66.com for

information.

April 29 - May 1.Tupelo, Miss.—3rd Annual Blue Suede Cruise.

Join in the fun at the Bancorp South Center and Tupelo

Automobile Museum (Hwy 45 South and Main Street)—rain or

shine. Events include a car show, parade, poker run, swap

meet, car corral, and live entertainment. Registration fee

before 4/15/05 - $30.00 After: $40.00. Contact: Janice Collins at

jcollins@tupeloauto.com or check out www.bluesc.com.

June 1-5. Historic National Road, Indiana.— Second Annual

Dawn to Dusk Yard Sale from Richmond to Terre Haute, Indiana.

Over 157 miles of bargains, antiques, fresh produce and

furniture along the historic National Road (US 40)—aka Antique

Alley. Call Patricia McDaniel at 765-478-4809.

June 2-4, AUBURN, IND.—American Truck Historical Society

National Convention & Antique Truck Show Kruse Auction Park.

Convention & Truck Show ATHS has held a national convention

each year since 1972, alternating between the East Coast, West

Coast and Central regions of the U.S. An antique truck show

was added to the convention in 1979. Since then, participation in

the national antique truck show has grown from 23 trucks in

1979 to a record 700 trucks at the 2000 show in Valley Forge,

Pa.Info: ATHS, (816) 891-9900; E-mail: info@aths.org; Internet:

June 7-11. Ely, Nev.—Lincoln Highway Association Annual

Convention. The opening dinner kicks off with Will Rogers (aka

Chautauqua speaker, Doug Watson). The weeks' events include

a visit to historic McGill Drug Store and a trip aboard Ely's train

chugging alongside several alignments of the Lincoln Highway.

www.lincolnhighway.com.

June 10-12. Ipswich, So Dak.—Trail Days. Ipswich is the 1912

home of the Yellowstone Trail and the concept of Trail Days—

where town residents would work on the road and picnic. This

year's celebration includes a classic car show and a Bull Riding

Bonanza followed by a country band concert.

June 11-12. Seaside, Oreg.—Muscle Beach Cruiz. This second

annual event is presented by Seaside Downtown Development

Association and Flashback Promotions. Festivities include a

welcome party, show and shine, walking poker run, and a

cruise. Obtain muscle car entry details by contacting 503-717-

8530 or flashback@pacifier.com.

July 8-10, Seaside, Oreg.—Bikefest at Seaside. Going Coastal

on US 101? Go to Seaside, where you'll find a bike show,

welcome party, the beach, vendors, live entertainment,and an

opportunity to win a new Harley Davidson Sportster Motorscycle.

Proceeds benefit prostate cancer research. Call 503-717-8530

or check out http:/ /www.flashbackinseaside.com for details.

July 10, Collinsville, Ill.—The World's Largest Catsup Bottle

Summerfest Birthday Party & Car Show Bash. Fun for the whole

family! Don't forget to enter your 3-6 year old in the Little Princess

Tomato or Little Sir Catsup pageant. Brought to you by —

Downtown Collinsville, Inc. Main Street Program. Phone

618.345.5598. Visit http://www.catsupbottlesummerfest.com..

July 17-23. Freedom Road Rally will host a week long vintage

car road rally traveling the back roads and highways of America's

heartland. The field will be limited to 200 vehicles, ranging in

years from 1903 to 1974—and can be anything from passenger

cars, sports cars, race cars, motorcycles, or any other vehicle

that would've been seen on the road during this time period. The

entry fee for the 2005 event will be $1,400 which will include

hotels, admission into various transportation museums,

and some dinners. We encourage all of our participants to make

this a family affair and to involve any young person in this

incredible adventure. The opportunity to travel through some of

the prettiest country in the world in a piece of automotive history

is an opportunity of a lifetime. Visit http://

www.freedomroadrally.com for details.

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DREAM WELL AND DRIVE SAFELY ON THE AMERICAN ROAD.

October 4, 2005

Yo!

Some good news I read with the coffee this morn: Acc to our local rag, the

budget submitted by the gov of Illinois includes 39.5 million dollars to repair

the McKinley Bridge. It is contingent on an agreement to payoff of bondholders

(article sez "who financed the building of the bridge in 1958, which cant be

right; apparently there is an agreement in the works to pay the bondholder 1.7

million of the 4.8 million owed.)...and finding some entity to take possession

of the property that the bridge connects to in St. Louis...the feds have already

put up 38.5 million...according to the article, bids could go out in the Spring

and the bridge could be reopened by 2006. The bridge will have two lanes for

traffic, and the two lanes that go along the outside of the bridge will be for

pedestrian traffic...

Hopefully the bondholders will get paid off and somebody can figure something

out about taking care of the Missouri side (I would like to say that is a "no

brainer", but weve managed to screw simpler things up before)...Natalie will be

getting ready for training wheels about then! Tsingtao, Kip

October 5, 2005

--- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "terry12622000"

<cottondrop@a...> wrote:

> From the song and the movie it is said to be out on Kingston Pike.

Is

> the Thunder Road North or South of Knoxville, TN.?

As nearly as I can figure out, this is how it goes.

From Harlan, KY, south on US 119 to Pineville.

South on US 25E across Cumberland Gap to Tazewell, TN.

Southwest on TN 33, through Maynardville to Halls Crossroads.

South on US 441 (Broadway, then Henley St.) into downtown

Knoxiousville.

West on Cumberland Ave (US 11-70) which becomes Kingston Pike, to

finis at Bearden.

A brief note about Cumberland Gap. It is no longer possible to

drive through the gap. There's a new tunnel in the immediate area,

and the gap has been returned, as much as possible, to the way it

was during Daniel Boone's day. You have to hike the gap these days.

But back then, the road crossed from KY to VA at the actual gap.

Just a couple of miles later, it dropped south into the town of

Cumberland Gap, TN.

So anyway Terry, the answer to your question is Thunder Road

approached Knoxville from the north.

Happy travels,

BabyBoomerBob

October 5, 2005

Bob,

You're pretty close - but, that's Hollywood. One

thing running moon, you tried your best to stay off

the main roads and, especially, out of cities. To

easy to get boxed in in a city.

There's an old road from Halls Cross-Road, thru

Powell Station and Byington that used to link up with

U S 11/70 (Kingston Pike) that would have probably

been used before going thru Bearden. Not sure if it's

still in use, but probably is. That would have been

one route around Knoxville.

Another would have been thru Maynarville, then over

TN 61 thru Clinton, Olive Springs, to Harriman, then

either Kingston or SW thru Rockwood.

Those hills are honeycombed with back roads that

would have been used - the runners knew them like they

knew their kitchen floor, the federals didn't.

Especially you avoided any road that could bring you

into a junction where you had no place to go. There

was always a network of spotters - a lantern hanging

from a tree, or in somebody's window, told you that

the way you were going was covered, so take another

route.

I tend to think most runners would avoid places like

Cumberland Gap like the plague - to obvious a route.

There are other roads to, and around Knoxville, and

other cities, that would be used.

But, as I say, that's Hollywood - makes for a darn

good, and exciting, story.

Happy Traveling.

Hudsonly,

Alex B

--- Bob Reynolds <roustabout@starband.net> wrote:

> --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com,

> "terry12622000"

> <cottondrop@a...> wrote:

> > From the song and the movie it is said to be out

> on Kingston Pike.

> Is

> > the Thunder Road North or South of Knoxville,

> TN.?

>

> As nearly as I can figure out, this is how it goes.

>

> From Harlan, KY, south on US 119 to Pineville.

>

> South on US 25E across Cumberland Gap to Tazewell,

> TN.

>

> Southwest on TN 33, through Maynardville to Halls

> Crossroads.

>

> South on US 441 (Broadway, then Henley St.) into

> downtown

> Knoxiousville.

>

> West on Cumberland Ave (US 11-70) which becomes

> Kingston Pike, to

> finis at Bearden.

>

> A brief note about Cumberland Gap. It is no longer

> possible to

> drive through the gap. There's a new tunnel in the

> immediate area,

> and the gap has been returned, as much as possible,

> to the way it

> was during Daniel Boone's day. You have to hike the

> gap these days.

> But back then, the road crossed from KY to VA at the

> actual gap.

> Just a couple of miles later, it dropped south into

> the town of

> Cumberland Gap, TN.

>

> So anyway Terry, the answer to your question is

> Thunder Road

> approached Knoxville from the north.

>

> Happy travels,

>

> BabyBoomerBob

>

__________________________________

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October 5, 2005

I've just been informed that Doug Pappas, owner of www.roadsidephotos.com,

passed away yesterday.

While Doug was an ardent RoadGeeker, I knew him most as a baseball analyst -

having authored many columns for Baseball Prospectus

(www.baseballprospectus.com). He will be missed.

More information:

This post from Christian at All-Baseball.com:

I just received the following email from John Zajc, Executive Director of SABR:

==========

I just spoke with Carolyn Pappas, Doug Pappas' mother, and was told of the

terrible news that Doug passed away while vacationing in Big Bend National Park

in Texas. It appears that the cause was heat prostration. Doug is survived only

by his mother.

She asks that I get the word out to all his SABR friends, who are many, since

Doug did so much for the organization.

As arrangements are made, I will make them known to the SABR community.

Our sympathies go to Carolyn.

==========

This is truly sad news. Doug was a huge part of the baseball analysis community,

through SABR and his chairmanship of the Business of Baseball Committee, through

his articles on Baseball Prospectus, and through his Business of Baseball blog.

He was easily the most knowledgeable person I knew about the inner working of

baseball, and while I never had the opportunity to meet him in person, he was

always available via email or phone to answer any questions I had about the CBA,

MLB ownership, or just about anything else baseball-related.

My thoughts go out to his mother. He will be sorely missed.

Link to obit at SABR (Society of American Baseball Research):

http://www.sabr.org/sabr.cfm?a=cms,c,767,40

From Baseball Prospectus:

In Memoriam: Doug Pappas

Doug Pappas, attorney and writer, died Thursday while hiking in Big Bend

National Park, apparently due to heat prostration.

Doug died while taking part in one of his passions, traveling the country and

taking pictures of it for his Roadside Photos web site.

It was through another of his passions, baseball, that Doug made his name.

Doug's determination to get at the truth about the baseball's business issues

made him one of the game's most influential writers.

He was an active, and popular, member of the Society for American Baseball

Research, and a good friend to all of us at Baseball Prospectus.

We'll miss our colleague, we'll miss a great writer, but mostly, we'll miss our

friend.

To Doug's family, especially his mother Carolyn, and to Doug's many friends

throughout baseball, we offer our deepest condolences.

Doug Pappas Author Archive at Baseball Prospectus:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/?author=51

Andrew Flynn

Chandler, AZ

October 5, 2005

--- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, Alex Burr <hester_nec@y...>

wrote:

> Bob,

>

> You're pretty close - but, that's Hollywood. One

> thing running moon, you tried your best to stay off

> the main roads and, especially, out of cities. To

> easy to get boxed in in a city.

Oh, I'm quite aware that this is the Hollywood version:) I can't

imagine going straight through downtown Knoxiousville. Wouldn't

make a bit of sense:)

>

> There's an old road from Halls Cross-Road, thru

> Powell Station and Byington that used to link up with

> U S 11/70 (Kingston Pike) that would have probably

> been used before going thru Bearden. Not sure if it's

> still in use, but probably is. That would have been

> one route around Knoxville.

That road is still around, and is now marked as TN sec. 131. It

connects to Kingston Pike at Lovell Road, beyond Bearden.

>

> Another would have been thru Maynarville, then over

> TN 61 thru Clinton, Olive Springs, to Harriman, then

> either Kingston or SW thru Rockwood.

>

> Those hills are honeycombed with back roads that

> would have been used - the runners knew them like they

> knew their kitchen floor, the federals didn't.

Let's face it. there isn't much on the route I proposed that would

count as "roads that angels feared to tread"

>

>Happy travels to all,

BabyBoomerBob

October 5, 2005

I'm saddened to hear of Doug's passing, and am forwarding this e-mail to

the Lincoln Highway group. I corresponded with Doug starting about 15

years ago, as we were both ardent roadside enthusiasts and collectors.

The only time we met in person was at the first Lincoln Highway

Association

(LHA) National Conference in Bedford, PA 13 years ago. We were both

charter members of the Lincoln Highway Association. Doug went on to

become the LHA New York State Director, and later he produced an LH

driving guide for NY and NJ. Doug was not able to attend any subsequent

LHA Conferences as it always conflicted with a Baseball event. Doug was

well known for his frequent cross-country roadtrips on various US

highways,

as evidenced by his web-site. As far as I know Doug was only in his

early

'50s so this is quite a surprise.

ypsi-slim

Russell S. Rein

On Sat, 22 May 2004 06:44:05 -0700 "Andrew Flynn" <andrew@acflynn.com>

writes:

> I've just been informed that Doug Pappas, owner of

> www.roadsidephotos.com,

> passed away yesterday.

>

> While Doug was an ardent RoadGeeker, I knew him most as a baseball

> analyst -

> having authored many columns for Baseball Prospectus

> (www.baseballprospectus.com). He will be missed.

>

> More information:

>

> This post from Christian at All-Baseball.com:

>

> I just received the following email from John Zajc, Executive

> Director of SABR:

>

> ==========

>

> I just spoke with Carolyn Pappas, Doug Pappas' mother, and was told

> of the

> terrible news that Doug passed away while vacationing in Big Bend

> National Park

> in Texas. It appears that the cause was heat prostration. Doug is

> survived only

> by his mother.

>

> She asks that I get the word out to all his SABR friends, who are

> many, since

> Doug did so much for the organization.

>

> As arrangements are made, I will make them known to the SABR

> community.

>

> Our sympathies go to Carolyn.

>

> ==========

>

> This is truly sad news. Doug was a huge part of the baseball

> analysis community,

> through SABR and his chairmanship of the Business of Baseball

> Committee, through

> his articles on Baseball Prospectus, and through his Business of

> Baseball blog.

> He was easily the most knowledgeable person I knew about the inner

> working of

> baseball, and while I never had the opportunity to meet him in

> person, he was

> always available via email or phone to answer any questions I had

> about the CBA,

> MLB ownership, or just about anything else baseball-related.

>

> My thoughts go out to his mother. He will be sorely missed.

>

> Link to obit at SABR (Society of American Baseball Research):

> http://www.sabr.org/sabr.cfm?a=cms,c,767,40

>

> From Baseball Prospectus:

>

> In Memoriam: Doug Pappas

>

> Doug Pappas, attorney and writer, died Thursday while hiking in Big

> Bend

> Park, apparently due to heat prostration.

>

> Doug died while taking part in one of his passions, traveling the

> country and

> taking pictures of it for his Roadside Photos web site.

>

> It was through another of his passions, baseball, that Doug made his

> name.

> Doug's determination to get at the truth about the baseball's

> business issues

> made him one of the game's most influential writers.

>

> He was an active, and popular, member of the Society for American

> Baseball

> Research, and a good friend to all of us at Baseball Prospectus.

>

> We'll miss our colleague, we'll miss a great writer, but mostly,

> we'll miss our

> friend.

>

> To Doug's family, especially his mother Carolyn, and to Doug's many

> friends

> throughout baseball, we offer our deepest condolences.

>

> Doug Pappas Author Archive at Baseball Prospectus:

> http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/?author=51

>

> Andrew Flynn

> Chandler, AZ

>

> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

>

> Visit our homepage at: http://www.mockturtlepress.com

>

> To subscribe to AMERICAN ROAD magazine, PHONE TOLL-FREE

> 1-877-285-5434 WITH YOUR ORDER TODAY!

> Or send payment to: Mock Turtle Press, PO Box 3168, Lynnwood, WA

> 98046-3168

> SUBSCRIPTION RATES:

> 1 year (4 issues) for $15.95

> (save $3.85 off the newsstand price!)

> 2 years (8 issues) for $27.95

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>

> For questions about the list, contact:

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>

> To SUBSCRIBE to this group, send an email to:

> AMERICAN_ROAD-subscribe@yahoogroups.comTo POST a message via e-mail,

> send it to: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

October 5, 2005

My sympathies to the family...Doug sent me a wonderful picture of the Arch

on the Mo/Ark border circa 1992...truly sad; if there is anything we can do

let us know...Kip and Quinn

----- Original Message -----

From: "Andrew Flynn" <andrew@acflynn.com>

To: <>; <AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com>;

<>; <bgwald@umich.edu>; "'Sharik, Stan'"

<>; "'Stan Sharik'" <sds1825@yahoo.com>; "Alex

Turell" <aturell@bearingpoint.net>

Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 8:44 AM

Subject: [AMERICAN_ROAD] Doug Pappas

> I've just been informed that Doug Pappas, owner of www.roadsidephotos.com,

> passed away yesterday.

>

> While Doug was an ardent RoadGeeker, I knew him most as a baseball

analyst -

> having authored many columns for Baseball Prospectus

> (www.baseballprospectus.com). He will be missed.

>

> More information:

>

> This post from Christian at All-Baseball.com:

>

> I just received the following email from John Zajc, Executive Director of

SABR:

>

> ==========

>

> I just spoke with Carolyn Pappas, Doug Pappas' mother, and was told of the

> terrible news that Doug passed away while vacationing in Big Bend National

Park

> in Texas. It appears that the cause was heat prostration. Doug is survived

only

> by his mother.

>

> She asks that I get the word out to all his SABR friends, who are many,

since

> Doug did so much for the organization.

>

> As arrangements are made, I will make them known to the SABR community.

>

> Our sympathies go to Carolyn.

>

> ==========

>

> This is truly sad news. Doug was a huge part of the baseball analysis

community,

> through SABR and his chairmanship of the Business of Baseball Committee,

through

> his articles on Baseball Prospectus, and through his Business of Baseball

blog.

> He was easily the most knowledgeable person I knew about the inner working

of

> baseball, and while I never had the opportunity to meet him in person, he

was

> always available via email or phone to answer any questions I had about

the CBA,

> MLB ownership, or just about anything else baseball-related.

>

> My thoughts go out to his mother. He will be sorely missed.

>

> Link to obit at SABR (Society of American Baseball Research):

> http://www.sabr.org/sabr.cfm?a=cms,c,767,40

>

> From Baseball Prospectus:

>

> In Memoriam: Doug Pappas

>

> Doug Pappas, attorney and writer, died Thursday while hiking in Big Bend

> National Park, apparently due to heat prostration.

>

> Doug died while taking part in one of his passions, traveling the country

and

> taking pictures of it for his Roadside Photos web site.

>

> It was through another of his passions, baseball, that Doug made his name.

> Doug's determination to get at the truth about the baseball's business

issues

> made him one of the game's most influential writers.

>

> He was an active, and popular, member of the Society for American Baseball

> Research, and a good friend to all of us at Baseball Prospectus.

>

> We'll miss our colleague, we'll miss a great writer, but mostly, we'll

miss our

> friend.

>

> To Doug's family, especially his mother Carolyn, and to Doug's many

friends

> throughout baseball, we offer our deepest condolences.

>

> Doug Pappas Author Archive at Baseball Prospectus:

> http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/?author=51

>

> Andrew Flynn

> Chandler, AZ

>

> Visit our homepage at: http://www.mockturtlepress.com

>

> To subscribe to AMERICAN ROAD magazine, PHONE TOLL-FREE 1-877-285-5434

WITH YOUR ORDER TODAY!

> Or send payment to: Mock Turtle Press, PO Box 3168, Lynnwood, WA

98046-3168

> SUBSCRIPTION RATES:

> 1 year (4 issues) for $15.95

> (save $3.85 off the newsstand price!)

> 2 years (8 issues) for $27.95

> (save $11.65 off the newsstand price!)

>

> For questions about the list, contact: AMERICAN_ROAD-owner@yahoogroups.com

>

> To SUBSCRIBE to this group, send an email to:

AMERICAN_ROAD-subscribe@yahoogroups.comTo POST a message via e-mail, send it

to: AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

October 5, 2005

Thanks.--- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Reynolds"

<roustabout@s...> wrote:

> --- In AMERICAN_ROAD@yahoogroups.com, Alex Burr <hester_nec@y...>

> wrote:

> > Bob,

> >

> > You're pretty close - but, that's Hollywood. One

> > thing running moon, you tried your best to stay off

> > the main roads and, especially, out of cities. To

> > easy to get boxed in in a city.

>

> Oh, I'm quite aware that this is the Hollywood version:) I can't

> imagine going straight through downtown Knoxiousville. Wouldn't

> make a bit of sense:)

> >

> > There's an old road from Halls Cross-Road, thru

> > Powell Station and Byington that used to link up with

> > U S 11/70 (Kingston Pike) that would have probably

> > been used before going thru Bearden. Not sure if it's

> > still in use, but probably is. That would have been

> > one route around Knoxville.

>

> That road is still around, and is now marked as TN sec. 131. It

> connects to Kingston Pike at Lovell Road, beyond Bearden.

> >

> > Another would have been thru Maynarville, then over

> > TN 61 thru Clinton, Olive Springs, to Harriman, then

> > either Kingston or SW thru Rockwood.

> >

> > Those hills are honeycombed with back roads that

> > would have been used - the runners knew them like they

> > knew their kitchen floor, the federals didn't.

>

> Let's face it. there isn't much on the route I proposed that would

> count as "roads that angels feared to tread"

> >

> >Happy travels to all,

>

> BabyBoomerBob

October 5, 2005

Thanks Russell, for sharing that article. I was born & raised in

Iowa, and Iowa is certainly not what comes to mind when you talk

famous roads. I hope this helps bring a little business and renewed

interest to the area..

Jeff in Tucson

October 6, 2005

Good Evening Folks,

Well my schedule is set and I will be arriving in Tulsa on Sunday afternoon

the 22nd at 4:08. I leave on Wednesday morning.

To bring you all up to date on the project will be held on Tuesday the 24th

with the media event taking place at 9 a.m. The local Hampton Inns will be

providing the people to do the actual work but for those of you that have

attend one of our past restoration projects know you are all welcome to

attend and pitch in where asked.

I will need to get the posts in the ground on Monday so if any of you can

assist me please let me know or I will have to hire some strong bodies to do

the work (I was broadsided yesterday by a lady that ran a stop sign, no I

will not be in a full body cast just a neck brace)

At this time I am not sure which Hampton I will be staying at but I would

like to get to see all of you sometime while in Tulsa. I have asked Marion

to work on getting the mayor to attend and asked each of you to also get in

touch with folks you feel would add to the event. This is really your event

as Hampton and I are there on you’re behalf. If there is anything that I can

do for any of you while I am in town please let me know.

Bard could you invite that young assembly member that was at the Blue Whale

event.

Looking forward to seeing all of you in two weeks.

Thanks

James M Conkle

Executive Director

California Route 66 Preservation Foundation

P O Box 290066

Phelan, CA 92329-0066

760 617 3991 cell

760 868 3320

760 868 8614 fax

HYPERLINK "mailto:"jim@cart66pf.org

www.cart66pf.org

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 8/2/2004

October 6, 2005

Dear Group,

I would like very much to conduct a poll of all e-group members concerning a

new, official AASHTO U.S. Route designation for Old Route 66.

Which one of the following proposals would you favor the most?

1) Re-designate the Old Road as a new, "Historic Bannered" U.S. Route by

designating a new mainline parent U.S. Route on the freeway that would

provide the support necessary for the paired bannered route. In other

words, an arrangement similar to the paired toll road/scenic route U.S. 412

in eastern Oklahoma.

2) A new Official U.S. 66 designation on the old road itself co-designating

on the Interstates for short distances to bridge gaps where an older,

historic alignment is simply no longer available. This scenario would

assume no significant "improvements" would be mandated to the historic

infrastructure.

3) A new, "Historic Bannered" U.S. Route designation on the old road that

would simply have no mainline "parent". (Would require a modification of

AASHTO guidelines.

4) A new, official U.S. Route designation not specified above. (Please

share your idea with us.)

There are nearly 200 members in our group. It would be so wonderful if we

could here from all of you. I already know that a few of you are opposed to

a new U.S. Route designation under any circumstance. Could those of you

opposed to a new U.S. Route designation share with us as to whether or not

you might change your mind *IF* certain criteria were to be met? What needs

to be done to make this concept acceptable to more (if not all) supporters

of the "Mother Road"?

Fred M. Cain,

U.S. Route 66 Re-commissioning Initiative

http://www.bringbackroute66.com

*****************************************************************************

October 6, 2005

Hey all...I had to get some stamps today and my post office had in

stock the Lewis & Clark Bicentennial stamps:

http://shop.usps.com/images/04_louisandclark37_f.jpg

This is the first time I'd bought these & they're very unique, as far

as stamps are concerned. They have the look and feel of money. Not

sure how long these have been out (perhaps our resident retired

postal worker can shed some light here), but they're a neat change

from the usual.

Pat B.

October 6, 2005

Here is an interesting article about Tom Wahls Avon NY

1999-Present Archive

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Home > Business Past week: Thu |Fri |Sat |Sun |Mon |Tue |Wed

enlarge MAX SCHULTE staff photographerTom Wahl vigorously advertised

and promoted his original Avon location to draw people from Monroe

County out into the country.

Day in Photos

Secret recipe

Tom Wahl's ground steaks always were unique compared with other

hamburgers in the area.

Was there a secret?

"Yes, there was,'' Wahl says. "It took me a couple of years to

develop this. We would buy steer arm chuck. We would bone it out;

throw the fat away — 25 percent waste. We would cut our meat every

day. We had a full-time meat cutter and in the summer we had one or

two part-timers.

"We would have our meat 85 percent lean. Eighty was too fatty, 90

would have no flavor. And we would coarse-grind it twice. Then we

would squeeze it out by hand. We would pound them out 100 dozen on a

Saturday night and let them age overnight. That would hold them

together better.''

One other secret taught him by a butcher in Avon: Add a little water

to replace the moisture that had evaporated.

Serving success, with extra pickles

Now 50 years old, Tom Wahl's Avon eatery testifies to founder's

determined entrepreneurship

Frank Bilovsky

Staff writer

(May 29, 2005) — The odds clearly were stacked against Tom Wahl

becoming a successful restaurateur when he bought a franchised ice

cream and root beer stand and plunked it in Avon.

The population was sparse — 4,400 in Avon and 44,000 in all of

Livingston County.

But it was 1955 and Wahl, a 23-year-old just out of the Army with a

young wife and a child on the way, took a gamble. He bought an acre

of land with 250 feet fronting Routes 5 and 20 and set up a Twin

Kiss stand. He had taken a job selling Twin Kiss franchises in New

York state a few months earlier, and he became his first customer.

Two years and three franchise sales later, he decided that he was

better off running a stand than trying to sell them. He gave up the

sales job and added ground steak sandwiches and hot dogs to his

menu. And in the process he changed the habits of thousands of

Monroe County diners.

Wahl, who in 1986 sold the business that still carries his name, did

not popularize the hamburger restaurant. People like Don Barbato,

Bill Gray and Vic and Irv Annus had already done that by opening

stands near the Lake Ontario shoreline in Sea Breeze. What Wahl did

was convince people to get into their cars and drive 20 miles or

more for America's comfort food — burgers, fries, ice cream and

shakes.

He achieved it by throwing himself headfirst into the business and

by marketing his product heavily in Rochester.

"I unloaded the trucks, I cooked, I hired the help, I did my own

accounting, even did the payroll for 10 or 15 years,'' the 74-year-

old Wahl said earlier this month from his West Bloomfield home. "My

goal from the start was to be the best stand in the world. And cost

was absolutely no object when it came to buying something. We would

buy the best and then raise our prices to cover it. And it worked

because we were out in the middle of nowhere and we had to make it

work. And we made it a brand.''

Half a century later, the restaurant has expanded into a nine-store

chain, including locations at the Rochester area's three major

malls. And Wahl's long-term vision seems to have paid off: The Avon

store is still the chain's sales leader.

"Tom sort of bridged the gap between the drive-in restaurant and the

family restaurant,'' said Rochester Institute of Technology business

professor Robert Barbato, the son of the Don & Bob's founder. "You

could go in there and it still had the flavor of a drive-in. But you

would go to the window to get your food, like what fast food

became.''

In the beginning

A month after Wahl started selling soft ice cream and frosted mugs

of root beer, Ray Kroc opened his first McDonald's Family Restaurant

in Des Plains, Ill. Fast food was about to go national. But Wahl had

no desire to expand much beyond his Avon location. He did, however,

have a strong desire to expand his single spot. "There was enough

population within 10 miles to support a Twin Kiss ice cream stand,''

Wahl said. "But if I wanted to increase business, I had to promote

very heavily, which I did.''

By the mid-'50s, a decade after the end of World War II, the

automobile was becoming more and more a staple in the American

household. It was less a luxury and more a necessity as dependence

on a deteriorating mass transit system began to wane.

Wahl recognized the trend and peppered the Rochester area with

advertising. He took out weekly ads in the Democrat and Chronicle

and Times-Union. He sponsored the noon news on WHAM radio. He wrote

his own copy, did his own radio spots. He had as many as 11

billboards throughout the area.

He sponsored Pop Warner football and Little League baseball teams.

He offered free coupons. Anything to get folks out of Monroe County

and into their cars for a drive to the country.

Later, Wahl enhanced the experience by adding a pavilion that seated

280 and offered free weekly concerts in the summer. In 1976, he

added indoor seating for the first time. Three years later, he

expanded from a March-to-November to a year-round business. And over

the first 25 years, he expanded the business at a compounded annual

rate of nearly 19 percent by attracting locals and tourists.

"Our tourist business accounted for as much as 20 percent of our

annual business — one-stop people,'' he said. "By the mid-1970s, we

would serve 4,000 people on a summer Sunday. We were averaging

20,000 people a week. We'd sell 250,000 mugs of root beer in a

typical year.''

And once people came, they kept coming back.

McDonald's sold hamburgers that were 10 to a pound for 15 cents.

Wahl sold ground steaks that were 3? to the pound for 40 cents. He

brewed his own root beer and sold it for a dime a mug, worked behind

the grill himself and developed a remarkably loyal following.

Memories

"We started dating in 1955 and we were there a lot,'' said Sandy

Schlenker of West Bloomfield. "We still go down there. And the food

is still good.''

In fact, she and her husband, Corky, bought a station wagon in 1973

that had cup holders in the back "just so our kids could eat in the

station wagon. That's before they had a place to sit.''

The memories linger.

"Tom would be cooking and he'd smile and wave to us,'' she

recalled. "We'd say 'extra pickles,' and he'd give us a big dish of

them. We loved that place.''

"Texas (hot) with ketchup and a vanilla shake, that's what I had

growing up,'' said Steve Harrison of Avon, who was born the year

Wahl opened. "Now I'm trying to eat healthier. I love their fish

sandwiches.''

Don Barbato and his family also would eat at Tom Wahl's.

"My dad used to take us all the time,'' Bob Barbato recalled. "We

liked to go for car rides. That's how we relaxed. Television was not

that interesting in those days. Kids didn't have soccer practice

every day.''

And business was much less cutthroat. Here's an example: Wahl had

been cooking his burgers at 350 degrees. "This big bull of a man

stopped in and said, 'What the hell are you doing there? You don't

know how to cook those things. Turn up the grill,'" Wahl

recalled. "So I turn it up 50 degrees, then another 50. I got to 500-

and-something degrees. What a difference that made! It seared it,

kept the juices in, cooked it quickly.''

The big bull of a man who offered the advice was Bill Gray.

While Gray's tip resulted in quick cooking, Wahl's never called its

offerings fast food.

"We weren't fast food, we were great food fast,'' says Wahl's son,

Tom Jr., who concocted the secret Wahlburger sauce and partnered

with his father for a while at a Brockport restaurant before

becoming a stockbroker. He's now a Morgan Stanley senior vice

president.

By the late 1970s, Tom Sr. was doing $1 million a year from his

single restaurant (years earlier he had sold his interest in a

Pittsford eatery to his brother, Bill). He never skimped on help and

developed a work force that was as loyal as his customer base.

Steve Harrison's wife, Kathy, had 14 brothers and sisters. "Tom Wahl

probably employed 10 of those kids,'' she said. "Just about

everybody worked there, all the Avon school kids. He was a great guy

to work for, too.''

By the mid-1980s, though, the decades of long days were catching up

with Wahl. Good young help was becoming increasingly difficult to

find. A venture into gasoline sales next door turned out to be a

disaster.

"By the time I was in my mid-50s, I was tired,'' he said.

In retirement

In 1986, he received an offer for the Avon restaurant from a

middleman. He told the man to take the restaurant's numbers back to

the potential buyer. A few days later, the buyer — it turned out to

be a partnership that included Webster grocer Bruce Hegedorn and

Bill Gray — nearly doubled the offer. Wahl accepted.

The expanded chain has continued to show steady growth, said Keith

Herman, its general manager. And, he added, the company continues

to "plow profits into opening new locations or remodeling'' rather

than taking them out of the operations.

It's a necessity of today's business environment, he said.

"The nationals (McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's) are having more

and more of a presence,'' he said. "They are very professional and

well capitalized. And they are just getting better and better. We

just have to stay a step ahead of them.''

After the sale, Wahl spent much of the next 14 years traveling in a

motor home with his wife, Annette, visiting all but four states.

Whenever he came home, he would check on Tom Wahl's under its new

ownership. He still does, and he likes what he sees. The quality and

customer service that had been his hallmark don't seem to have been

compromised.

"That's important to me because my name is still on it,'' he

said. "And you know what? It's really a classy hamburger chain. I

like that.''

FBILOV@DemocratandChrionicle.com

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