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DennyG

Pp-oo In Illinois & Indiana

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I don't know if anyone's following such things but several PPOO items have recently sold on ebay: a porcelain sign for $643 (that's gotta be rare!), a 1922 guide for $57, and a letter on PPOO letterhead for $70. You have to have deep pockets to collect this stuff.

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Had I seen it I might have bid on that guide but I'd have run away well before it approached $56. The prices of all three of thoses items are rather scary.

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Had I seen it I might have bid on that guide but I'd have run away well before it approached $56. The prices of all three of thoses items are rather scary.

 

 

One of the places PPOO fans might enjoying visiting on the web is the Utah Digital Newspapers site. Use an exact phrase search on Ocean to Ocean and read a few of the amusing and enlightening articles from the early days of the Auto Trails. Competition between towns and solicitation of members, apple pie socials and community road building to woo the pathfinders and win the route...it is all there as it happened.

 

These are real source materials for anyone who wants to understand how the auto trails developed, and evolved. It is a splendid site not just for the PPOO but for the Lincoln Highway and the Midland Trail.

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

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One of the places PPOO fans might enjoying visiting on the web is the Utah Digital Newspapers site. Use an exact phrase search on Ocean to Ocean and read a few of the amusing and enlightening articles from the early days of the Auto Trails. Competition between towns and solicitation of members, apple pie socials and community road building to woo the pathfinders and win the route...it is all there as it happened.

 

These are real source materials for anyone who wants to understand how the auto trails developed, and evolved. It is a splendid site not just for the PPOO but for the Lincoln Highway and the Midland Trail.

 

Thanks for the tip. Great site! I've also found some state document sites and library sites useful. E.g. I've gotten some photocopies of letters from the PPOO Association to governors of Nevada and Utah asking about potential routings for the highway. Also an announcement for a PPOO convention in 1914. Some librarians will copy them for free and mail them. Eventually, all this stuff will be digital.

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Thanks for the tip. Great site! I've also found some state document sites and library sites useful. E.g. I've gotten some photocopies of letters from the PPOO Association to governors of Nevada and Utah asking about potential routings for the highway. Also an announcement for a PPOO convention in 1914. Some librarians will copy them for free and mail them. Eventually, all this stuff will be digital.

 

PPOO,

 

I’m glad you found the newspapers site interesting. I can see from your comments that you are experienced in doing that kind of research.

 

I have a small number of American Motorist, Touring Topics, and Automobilist magazines from the 1920’s that are fun to read. It is natural in 2007 to compress the evolution of road development and automobiles into a brief period in our minds, but when you read the source materials from the period you see it didn’t happen overnight!

 

I’m personally pleased you have joined this group. You bring the kind of expertise we all enjoy and value.

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

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I have a small number of American Motorist, Touring Topics, and Automobilist magazines from the 1920’s that are fun to read. It is natural in 2007 to compress the evolution of road development and automobiles into a brief period in our minds, but when you read the source materials from the period you see it didn’t happen overnight!

 

Funny you should mention magazines - reading this forum has encouraged me to spend some time organizing some of the info I've pack-ratted away and yesterday I put up a link to a handful of magazines at http://www.ppoo.org/PPOOMags/ (sorry about the large image files for the PPOO articles - I'm working on it). They're always a trip to read and do have lots of good info (the precursors of AR!)

 

Interesting that our magazine lists have no overlap, in fact I've never seen Touring Topics. Maybe I'll check the local library some Sunday afternoon.

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Funny you should mention magazines - reading this forum has encouraged me to spend some time organizing some of the info I've pack-ratted away and yesterday I put up a link to a handful of magazines at http://www.ppoo.org/PPOOMags/ (sorry about the large image files for the PPOO articles - I'm working on it). They're always a trip to read and do have lots of good info (the precursors of AR!)

 

Interesting that our magazine lists have no overlap, in fact I've never seen Touring Topics. Maybe I'll check the local library some Sunday afternoon.

 

 

PPOO,

 

Terrific post! Magaines aren't my main interest, but your examples could be the start of a whole new collecting interest. Touring Topics was an Automobile Club of Southern California publication, so you would only see it out west.

 

Now I want to read your articles. They look facinating.

 

Keep the Show on the Road!!!

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PPOO,

 

You really got my attention with those Motor Camper & Tourist magazines! I think they deserve more attention than I’ve giving them. I checked prices on Ebay and they seem to vary by the same standard applied to Touring Topics....covers. Of the three recent sales, the lowest was $16 and the highest over $100.

 

Fortunately I don’t buy for covers, and condition isn’t primary, but content is. I was really impressed with the PPOO piece.

 

I do have to comment on covers and travel art from the 1920’s, and the Motor Camper & Tourist covers are great examples. They made you want to travel, and the road was the thing. Just looking at them makes me want to hit the road. The romance of the road was captured in the colors used and the subjects depicted.

 

I am thinking maybe we should put our collective heads together with others here and offer some information on what to look for and expect in vintage auto magazines. I know it isn’t my field of expertise, but that has never deterred me in the past from offering advice!!

 

One of us could start a new thread, perhaps under Trip Planning. If you like the idea, go for it. I’ll join in.

 

Thanks again for the great post!

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

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You really got my attention with those Motor Camper & Tourist magazines! I think they deserve more attention than I’ve giving them. I checked prices on Ebay and they seem to vary by the same standard applied to Touring Topics....covers. Of the three recent sales, the lowest was $16 and the highest over $100.

 

Fortunately I don’t buy for covers, and condition isn’t primary, but content is. I was really impressed with the PPOO piece.

 

I do have to comment on covers and travel art from the 1920’s, and the Motor Camper & Tourist covers are great examples. They made you want to travel, and the road was the thing. Just looking at them makes me want to hit the road. The romance of the road was captured in the colors used and the subjects depicted.

 

I am thinking maybe we should put our collective heads together with others here and offer some information on what to look for and expect in vintage auto magazines. I know it isn’t my field of expertise, but that has never deterred me in the past from offering advice!!

 

One of us could start a new thread, perhaps under Trip Planning. If you like the idea, go for it. I’ll join in.

 

Definitely not my expertise, either. I got those MC&T's a few years ago from eBay because the listing mentioned the PP-OO article. They're interesting enough I'd like to get more, but they don't come up very often and $100 is over my budget... I'd be interested in seeing more early auto mags, if anyone's willing to scan. I'll be gone for a few days and will try to scan the rest of the PPOO articles next week.

 

I'd definintely be interested in a new thread on magazines, just to learn more.

 

-PPOO

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Definitely not my expertise, either. I got those MC&T's a few years ago from eBay because the listing mentioned the PP-OO article. They're interesting enough I'd like to get more, but they don't come up very often and $100 is over my budget... I'd be interested in seeing more early auto mags, if anyone's willing to scan. I'll be gone for a few days and will try to scan the rest of the PPOO articles next week.

 

I'd definintely be interested in a new thread on magazines, just to learn more.

 

-PPOO

 

PPOO,

 

I have at least 75 Automobilist, Touring Topics, American Motorist, Westways, and other 1913-1935 magazines. I buy them hoping to find good old road touring descriptions. Of course others buy them for the covers or for the auto ads…which are also interesting. These publications are AAA affiliated. I think your MC&T's are great, not AAA related, and I will have to look for them.

 

I find the problem with those I have to be that much of each magazine is usually related to AAA “club news and views,” not to touring. None the less, some of the touring pieces are excellent.

 

I’ll continue to keep my eyes out for PPOO articles. I just looked at a few and found articles on the Yellowstone Trail and the Custer Battlefield Highway, so maybe the PPOO is just around the corner!

 

As soon as I am finished scanning one or the other, I will start a magzine thread.

 

Keep the Show on the Road

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After reading this thread (great thread, by the way!) I decided to go over to White Heath to try to find and examine more closely the marker post. I could not, however, locate the post among the 3-6 ft tall weeds and brush that were present. Not knowing whether it was on the N or S side of the segment did not help, either. I did make some observations, though...

 

Between Monticello and White Heath, it is very apparent that the PPOO (and 10) did not follow the Interurban. What might look like a road next to a track on some aerial views http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&...1&encType=1

is actually two tracks (Illinois Central parallel and north of Illinois Traction [interurban]). Eloise Ln. does parallel the tracks, but it is a newer road and is not very long. Interestingly, the interurban tracks are still present at the crossing near Eloise Ln. These are the first interurban rails I've ever seen.

 

I'm convinced that "1532 Rd" (old 47 on the USGS maps KtSotR posted) is the PPOO, and that at the point in question it is the road where the marker lies. I surmise that the PPOO then headed into White Heath until it made a forced Left turn onto S. Meridian. From there, it's hard for me to say how it got to the edge of town, but it did follow the tracks NE out of White Heath.

 

Anyway, that was my day. I sure wish I could have found that marker. I'll have to go back when the weeds are dead.

 

Wes

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Not knowing whether it was on the N or S side of the segment did not help, either.

It's on the north side, as I recall.

 

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your explorations. Looks like you might be able to clarify a detail or two.

 

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Just found this forum, an thought I might ask a question. I know what the markers for the PPOO looked like, red and white band with PPOO, but were they also marked with an "R" or "L" where one was to make a right or left turn? I thought I read that somewhere, but now can not find my reference. I may be buying an old gas station in Newman, IL that was on the route, and was called the "Ocean To Ocean" Filling Station. Thanks so much for any help. sherry

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Just found this forum, an thought I might ask a question. I know what the markers for the PPOO looked like, red and white band with PPOO, but were they also marked with an "R" or "L" where one was to make a right or left turn? I thought I read that somewhere, but now can not find my reference. I may be buying an old gas station in Newman, IL that was on the route, and was called the "Ocean To Ocean" Filling Station. Thanks so much for any help. sherry

 

I don't really know one way or the other but I imagine it's possible that the PPOO used Rs and Ls on their signs. Apparently the Yellowstone Trail did.

 

Welcome to the forum and good luck on getting the station. We'd love to hear about it and your plans for it. Maybe you can start off a new topic about the station.

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Just found this forum, an thought I might ask a question. I know what the markers for the PPOO looked like, red and white band with PPOO, but were they also marked with an "R" or "L" where one was to make a right or left turn? I thought I read that somewhere, but now can not find my reference. I may be buying an old gas station in Newman, IL that was on the route, and was called the "Ocean To Ocean" Filling Station. Thanks so much for any help. sherry

 

Sherry,

 

I have a couple of original PPOO publications. I'll dig them out and see if they have any useful examples to answer your question. Check back.

 

And I second Denny's welcome!

 

Dave

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

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Sherry,

 

I have a couple of original PPOO publications. I'll dig them out and see if they have any useful examples to answer your question. Check back.

 

And I second Denny's welcome!

 

Dave

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

 

Sherry,

 

I have looked carefully at the 1926 PPOO guide and a couple of other PPOO guides and did not find L or R usage. That definitely does not prove they weren't used.

 

On a different matter, looking at the 1926 PPOO official guide I did not find that the PPOO went through Newman (it went via Champaign Urbana), but to my relief ( I didn't want to convey bad news) the 1923 Rand McNally map shows it going through Newman. I haven't looked farther back in time, but I'll venture a guess that sometime between 1923 and 1926 advertising prospects were better on the route via Champaign Urbana, or perhaps by that time that (longer) route had improved.

 

If you do buy the Ocean to Ocean station, you will have some fun research to do. If I can help, let me know.

 

Dave

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

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I suppose the Ocean to Ocean station is at the intersection of Yates and King, probably the south east corner....based on a little Google research.

 

There is quite a nice write up on the station on Facebook at:

 

http://www.facebook.com/notes/newman-illinois-past-and-present/the-ocean-to-ocean-pikes-peak-highway-and-gas-station-in-newman-il/272805906086208

 

Dave

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

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I've looked at this thread a few times since I live in Monticello, IL. Has anyone noticed "Ocean Trl" on the map starting about just south of the Decatur Airport and parallel to US36 until the Macon County line?

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Michael G. Buettner writes on this page: “Given the impermanence of the overall route selection, it comes as no surprise that in Ohio, the PP-OO has largely been forgotten by everyone except highway historians and map collectors. However, according to the Martins, the fourth transcontinental highway is remembered in several Missouri towns where the route had its roots, and an Ocean Trail has managed to survive as a street name in Decatur, Illinois.”

 

It certainly is odd to think about any road in Decatur, Illinois, being named "Ocean Trail" without the context to know that it was once part of that route.

 

Chris

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Welcome to the forum, tombstone. Keep those observations coming.

 

tombstone's comment and Chris's response triggered a couple of thoughts. One is that, although Michael Buettner's is officially a Lincoln Highway guy, he has researched and documented other highways in Ohio and has several articles here that are worth a look. The second is that Rick Martin, who Michael quotes in the PP-OO article, was quite active, as PPOO, in the early part of this thread, seems to have vanished. He last visited the forum in 2008. That also appears to be about the last time there was any activity on the ppoo.org website.

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Sweet! Funny story - your picture put this thread at the top of the list, and I hadn't seen it before. I saw that Denny was looking for routing info and a deep discussion ensued with Jim and Dave. So I dug my Clason atlases out, opened Google maps on my computer, then spent about an hour following the 1925-26 routing and plotting it on the current map. Then as I was about to respond I looked at the date and realized the discussion had taken place almost 7 years ago! Oh well, better late than never. :sDOH:

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