Jump to content
American Road Magazine
Celebrating our two-lane highways of yesteryear…And the joys of driving them today!
DennyG

Pp-oo In Illinois & Indiana

Recommended Posts

I just did an eBay search on "auto trails" and got 20+ hits for old auto trails maps, with no wading through junk entries.

 

I tried "Rand McNally map" and got 2 pages of results, meaning some wading, but found several interesting items.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The federal Highway site does show a Rand McNally PP-OO map they identify as 1927 ( http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/pikes02.htm ). It isn't an "offical" guide, of course, and only shows the high level city-to-city routings.

 

As map collecting has become a bit of a sub-topic here, I'm curious about the wheres & hows of finding auto trail period maps. I occasionally visit eBay and once in a great while do a general web search but you serious collectors must have better sources.

 

Where the heck is Mike Ward when you need him??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Where the heck is Mike Ward when you need him??

 

The auto trails maps by Rand McNally are organized by districts or regions and are often available individually on Ebay. In addition, the 1924 Rand McNally Commercial Atlas contains them all. BTW, I suspect that could have been the only year they were all published in the Commercial Atlas, so don’t buy another year unless you confirm the content.

 

Of course other companies published maps and atlases showing the auto trails, but I consider the Rand McNally full size versions (there are “jr.” versions as well) to be the standard against which others are measured.

 

Enlighten me regarding Mike Ward. He sounds like someone I should know.

 

Keep the Show on the Road

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...there are “jr.” versions as well...
Are the jr. versions useful/usable? As I suspect you are aware, there is currently an eastern US jr. on eBay.

Enlighten me regarding Mike Ward. He sounds like someone I should know.
Mike is an avid map and music collector who lives in Arizona. My contact with Mike has been through the Route 66 e-group at Yahoo for which he serves as MC and general organizer for the group's breakfast gatherings at national events. I believe that Mike owns one of every oil company map ever printed with duplicates of the common ones. I guess that might be a slight exaggeration but only a slight one. His collection may include auto trails era stuff but I'm not aware that it does. Mike is a member here and may occasionally browse but has not posted since the e-group->forum move.

 

Mike also has the distinction, along with Alex Burr, of having a "letter to the editor" in American Road Volume 1 Number 1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike is an avid map and music collector who lives in Arizona. My contact with Mike has been through the Route 66 e-group at Yahoo for which he serves as MC and general organizer for the group's breakfast gatherings at national events. I believe that Mike owns one of every oil company map ever printed with duplicates of the common ones. I guess that might be a slight exaggeration but only a slight one. His collection may include auto trails era stuff but I'm not aware that it does. Mike is a member here and may occasionally browse but has not posted since the e-group->forum move.

 

I know Mike has at least one auto trails map, that being the '25 Jr. Rand McNally he shuttled my way on CD. I'll see what I can do about shuttling him over here. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The federal Highway site does show a Rand McNally PP-OO map they identify as 1927 ( http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/pikes02.htm ). It isn't an "offical" guide, of course, and only shows the high level city-to-city routings.

 

 

Hi road people, I've been lurking on this board for a while but got interested in this thread thanks to an email from Denny. Lot's of good stuff!

 

Anyway, I have a 1927 PP-OO guide so it does exist. Cover looks just like the 1926 but has fewer pages, few city maps. It shows US highways (Rand McNally was good about updating quickly). FYI, Anderson IN routing looks the same as in 1926. Rand 1928 IL map still labels PP-OO route, BTW, so they didn't drop the names immediately.

 

Also have a 1924 National Highways Assoc PP-OO map wich shows the route thru Lebanon-Crawfordsville-Danville-Chambana to corroborate an earlier post. I'm almost sure I've seen some map with both routes marked (the northerly thru Danville, Il and the older southerly thru Danville, IN-Crisman-Tuscola). The older route enters Decatur further south than the 1924 version, and that's where the existing "Ocean Trail" street is that I put a photo of on my website ppoo.org. Someday I'll get around to updating that site...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi road people, I've been lurking on this board for a while but got interested in this thread thanks to an email from Denny. Lot's of good stuff!

 

Hi there! Welcome aboard...we look forward to hearing more about the PPOO and any other contributions you wish to make to our merry band of roadies! :welcome:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...I have a 1927 PP-OO guide so it does exist.
So that means that we shouldn't always believe KtSotR when he says he's wrong? :)

 

I'll add my welcome and share my hunch that you'll be able to add plenty to the "good stuff" here.

 

I hope that Anderson, IN, routing makes sense in real life. As I mentioned earlier, MapSource gets pretty confused through there but I suspect it's a software/data issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi road people, I've been lurking on this board for a while but got interested in this thread thanks to an email from Denny. Lot's of good stuff!

 

Welcome! When I researched my US 36 in Indiana trips this year, I stumbled across your site and was not only excited to learn about the road, but that an alignment more or less followed US 36 west to Illinois. I wrote it up here. On the last page of that set, there's a link to a page that shows the drive from Chrisman, IL back to about Montezuma on the PP-OO.

 

So thanks to your page, I got a whole lot of exploring pleasure! Thanks!

 

jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to make five comments.

 

First, a hearty welcome to ppoo. I have visited your PPOO site several times and it is a great asset to anyone interested in the auto trails. Having followed the PPOO in the west, I am a big aficionado.

 

Second, kudos to DennyG again for inviting ppoo aboard! I have no idea how Denny manages to work, write, travel, post, and connect, let alone advise on most things technical or road travel related, all the while organizing or participating in road cruses, etc. My suspicion is that there really are at least two DennyG’s who divide up the territory.

 

Third, let’s all remember that even when I’m wrong, I’m right. My memory is 95% perfect. :P

 

Fourth, ppoo, it is possible that I have some items of interest to you and your site, or maybe something from my 95% perfect memory :D to share about the PPOO. Seriously, if I can help, I’ll try…although you probably already have everything I know about.

 

Finally, watch out for Mobilene. He tracks the old alignments like a bear after honey.

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the welcome, everyone. And it just dawned on me who "KtSotR" is...

 

And, yes KtSotR I'd love to exchange info on the PPOO. My travels have been from PA to CO so I'm quite ignorant of the current state of the western route(s) and have less info on the historical side out there.

 

And to add to the confusion of the earlier discussion of the northern vs. souther PPOO route in west IN and east IL, I offer the attached image of a Rand map of IL showing both routes (PPOO is labeled with a '2') simultaneously. Unfortunately dating this map is a bit tricky - date code is 9R23 which doesn't seem to fit with the RMCA decoder (http://www.roadmaps.org/date.htm - it claims the 'R' would mean 1936, but there's no way it can be that late since it has no US highway numbers and does list named auto trails). I'm voting for the '23' in the code to be 1923. Any ideas on this one? post-1149-1190856984_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi gang. I spoke yesterday with Heather at the Central Illinois Tourism Development office. She invited everyone from our Forum to visit their booth in Springfield. She indicated that they are going to have some great giveaways and prizes at their booth.

 

So, when you are all in Springfield (wish we could be there!) stop in at their booth and tell them you heard about them from American Road!

 

I invite you to take pics and drop a note from the town where we officially announced the launch of American Road magazine!

 

Happy Road Trippin'!

Beck :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...it just dawned on me who "KtSotR" is...
Yes, the full name takes too long to type so I only use it where that's a chance of confusing him with his evil twin, Keep the SNOW on the Road.

 

I offer the attached image of a Rand map of IL showing both routes (PPOO is labeled with a '2') simultaneously.
That strikes me as extremely strange. Is it possible that it really is an "after the fact" map from 1936 that's trying to show all historical alignments?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I made it home and have two days of PP-OO travel at http://www.dennygibson.com/rt66fest07il . Of course, it is preceded by a couple of days on some other road. Rick & I solved the Danville mystery (closed bridge) and I solved the intractable routing in Anderson (one ways) but uncovered enough new questions to more than make up for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Denny, what a great writeup, esp. of the PP-OO sections. It was awesome to see what happened to the road and bridge in Danville. I have got to make this trip one day. jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I made it home and have two days of PP-OO travel at http://www.dennygibson.com/rt66fest07il . Of course, it is preceded by a couple of days on some other road. Rick & I solved the Danville mystery (closed bridge) and I solved the intractable routing in Anderson (one ways) but uncovered enough new questions to more than make up for it.

 

Denny,

 

Well, that was great! Some terrific PPOO sleuthing, some great abandoned alignments, a terrific old bridge, good company, and even the tale of the interurban. I’m saving day four for later...

 

I’m pleased when someone recognizes the interurbans. They had a great deal to do with our transportation history and with suburban development. Hard to appreciate fully today. Any idea which system the powerhouse belonged to..... (Springfield?)?

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Any idea which system the powerhouse belonged to..... (Springfield?)?
The train almost certainly ran to Springfield but I don' know its official designation. I've scanned this article but have yet to accomplish a disciplined read. It may hold that detail.

 

In Yorktown, IN, I noticed a new building with a sign reading "New Interurban Transportation for Eastern Indiana". It caught my eye and I've since done some Googling. It seems to be a good concept but not tied to rails. Some info here. Electric interurban transportation may come back any day now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Denny - great trip info and photos! Let's do it again sometime.

 

The train almost certainly ran to Springfield but I don' know its official designation. I've scanned this article but have yet to accomplish a disciplined read. It may hold that detail.

 

I think I mentioned that I remebered a short TV program on the interurban that included the Fifthian station, well here it is http://will.atlas.uiuc.edu/index.php/prair...re/segment/C28/ including video! It's the Illinois Traction railway. Old route maps on http://www.illinoistractionsociety.org/Plat.html show it followed the PPOO route from Danville thru Jacksonville.

 

BTW, re: your photo of the IL Route 10 marker. The closeup I took looks like it says "State R10" (see photo) so it's the PPOO - route 10 no longer goes this way.

 

 

 

post-1149-1191464770_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Let's do it again sometime.
Yes indeed. I think there is much interesting poking around to be done in the Saint Joseph area. And other places, too, of course. The video is great and answered some questions I had about the power stations and interurban operation. Cool.

 

The closeup I took looks like it says "State R10" (see photo)
Agreed that there is something betwee the 'R' and the 'O' or '0' but I'm not so sure it's a '1'. We may have to sneak out there in the dark of night with shovels and lanterns :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The train almost certainly ran to Springfield but I don' know its official designation. I've scanned this article but have yet to accomplish a disciplined read. It may hold that detail.

 

In Yorktown, IN, I noticed a new building with a sign reading "New Interurban Transportation for Eastern Indiana". It caught my eye and I've since done some Googling. It seems to be a good concept but not tied to rails. Some info here. Electric interurban transportation may come back any day now.

 

Denny,

 

I read the first article. It is great and very informative. Great tip! Thanks!

 

Quoting from the article, I think the system was "the Illinois Terminal Railroad Company (ITC), which was also known as the Illinois Traction System (ITS) or simply, the Interurban. "

 

I have a collection of streetcar and interurban transfers from the 1905-1916 period I picked up on one of my map hunts. It even included a transfer issued in SF on the day of the great earthquake. I am going to see if it has any ITC/ITS transfers.

 

As for "light rail," we are struggling with getting back what we tore up 50 or 75 years ago. Well, so much for what's new under the sun!

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed that there is something betwee the 'R' and the 'O' or '0' but I'm not so sure it's a '1'. We may have to sneak out there in the dark of night with shovels and lanterns :)

 

Well, I'll throw my guess out there. I'll bet someone a hot fudge sundae that if you dig further, it reads "STATE R.O.W." I'm not seeing a "1" there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, I'll throw my guess out there. I'll bet someone a hot fudge sundae that if you dig further, it reads "STATE R.O.W." I'm not seeing a "1" there.

 

Ouch..State Right of Way. No adventure, no discovery, just a lousy declaration. How unromantic! I suggest we bury the post so we never have to know the truth!

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait. If it's a State ROW marker, then... didn't that road at one time have to be a state road? I think it's still evidence of a former alignment of IL 10.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wait. If it's a State ROW marker, then... didn't that road at one time have to be a state road? I think it's still evidence of a former alignment of IL 10.

 

I *think* as a general rule of thumb, most ROW markers didn't list a route number, but there may have been some exceptions. I would agree that only a state route back in the day would've used a ROW marker such as this. As to whether it was IL-10, I'll defer to the PPOO experts on that one, as my knowledge of the routes the PPOO traversed could be held in a thimble. :huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×