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DennyG

Pp-oo In Illinois & Indiana

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I realize this is veering off topic but I'm wondering if the ABB you're referencing actually shows the Dixie Bee Line Highway going through Covington and Veedersburg. I know very little about the DBL other than it was principally north-south and connected, among others, Danville, IL, and Terre Haute, IN. If I read Pat's Auto Trails Map correctly (and those little bitty numbers can look pretty fuzzy at times), it appears to head SE from Danville then due south (probably on what is now IN-63) before reaching Perrysville. Apparently the PP-OO did follow a road between Covington and Veedersburg that is now called W Dixie Bee Road but is there any evidence that this was once part of the DBL Highway?

 

I did some tracing of the DBL at lunch and the best I can tell is that it comes into IN on IN-32, then before reaching IN-63, it cuts south on "Meridian Road", which cuts south into Eugene and into neighboring Cayuga. It was at this piont I ran out of lunch time. <_< But, it looks as if it does land on 63 southest of Cayuga and heads into Newport. Google Maps shows two separate old alignments of 63, with the apparently the older one being the only road directly south out of town. This is a significant road because that road is the location of the annual "Newport Hill Climb", where flivvers of all ages race up the hill. I've not been to it, but it attracts thousands. I couldn't get the URL to open, but here it is: Newport Hill Climb But oh Lordy, last year's was the LAST WEEKEND IN SEPTEMBER! Runs Friday through Sunday. Hmmm...I think we'll be over that way, won't we??? :drive1: I'll check with my dad to see if he's going to make it over there this year.

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..."Newport Hill Climb"... last year's was the LAST WEEKEND IN SEPTEMBER!...
Last year's was also the weekend following the Springfield festival and it looks like the same relationship exists this year. I had no luck with the website either (major updates for the approaching competition?) but a snippet cached somewhere gave dates of October 5th 6th & 7th 2007 in response to a search.

 

I stopped by there last year on the way home from Springfield. I was lured there by a group of Model Ts I had encountered in Dana. None of that group would be involved in the hillclimb but some tried the hill anyway. It all looks like great fun. Pre-1942 and pre-1955 cars and pre-1935 motorcycles.

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All those years I lived just south in Terre Haute and I never went to the hill climb. I have got to do that one year soon.

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All those years I lived just south in Terre Haute and I never went to the hill climb. I have got to do that one year soon.

Well, if I lived on the west side of Indianapolis, I'd be there every year. :rolleyes:

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I finally got enough time to do what I believe is exactly the same thing mobilene did the other night. That is plot the directions for Route 53 from the ABB pages he posted on modern roads. There are definitely some expressway slicing going on. Particularly, as mobilene mentioned, west of both Danville and Decatur. Of course, we're not completely sure this is the PP-OO route but, assuming it is, I think I have a fairly good modern-road route for this section. I've already sent Roadmaven an SA2008 compatible version of the file and would be happy to do the same for anyone else who is interested and has SA2008.

 

For others and to see if it's allowed, I tried attaching a GPX version of the route to this message. It isn't (allowed that is) but I'd be happy to send that to anyone interested, as well.

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It looks as though maps and routes have been flying hot and heavy in my absence!!

 

Glad to be back, but sorry I missed the fun.

 

I started to pull out maps and ABB’s but thought I better find out first whether everything has been determined already.

 

I have a large 1920 Rand McNally Auto Trails showing the PPOO route between Columbus and Pittsburg if you need or want it.

 

I have all the large scale Rand McNally Auto Trail maps for the country for 1924 so they should match Mobilene’s 1924 ABB nicely. It is easy to track the PPOO across Indiana and Ohio on these maps.

 

I have several Midwest and Transcontinental ABBs so if you want info before or after Mobilene’s 1924 ABB, let me know.

 

And Mobilene....You are now really hooked. Isn’t following those old routes on current maps mind boggling. I did a few little books (never published) doing that. That is a sure book idea for anyone ambitious. I’ll help if anyone gets the bug.

 

If you don’t already have all the info you need or want, tell me what else you may need and I will scan it along with the 1926 PPOO Guide I promised Denny. BTW Denny, you want to from where to where?

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

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BTW Denny, you want to from where to where?
From Springfield, IL, east to Greenville, OH. At some point in the (I hope) not too distant future I'll be covering the section east of Greenville to Cadiz so you might want to keep that handy.

 

As things stand, I may have a pretty good handle on things between Springfield & Crawfordsville if the PP-OO's route is the same as the ABB Route 53.

 

As you can see, roadmaven & mobilene did an admirable job of keeping the maps flowing in your absence. I hope the visit was great fun but imagine you're ready to switch from visitee to visitor. Welcome back.

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OK, I posted 1924 auto trails maps across Indiana and Ohio.

 

They are jpg digital photos, not scans, because scanning takes mucho time and workspace with these large maps. I think the photos work well, unless I am told otherwise. They are large files (1.5 MB per file) but they could be made smaller on request.

 

Download them to your hard drive because they take up too much space on my service and I will take them down eventually.

 

The Pikes Peak Ocean to Ocean is 47

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/P9130285.JPG

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/P9130286.JPG

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/P9130287.JPG

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/P9130288.JPG

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/P9130289.JPG

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/P9130290.JPG

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/P9130291.JPG

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/P9130292.JPG

 

 

 

 

Have fun and let me know what other stuff would be helpful.

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

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E-gads!! Will the real PPOO please stand up!? Dave's '24 map shows a straight shot across IN using present day U.S. 40 & U.S. 36. My map from one year later shows a jigsaw puzzle of current county roads that looks like something written on an Etch-a-Sketch. Denny, I think another e-mail to the P.P.O.O. guy is in order to get him on here. :lol:

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E-gads!! Will the real PPOO please stand up!?
DON'T PANIC

Those are all known and valid PP-OO routings (see earlier comment regarding "a highway that couldn't make up its mind"). Much of the PP-OO's earliest route in the east was shared with the NOTR (US-40). The 1924 map seems to still be this way in Indiana although eastern Ohio has already jumped to Steubenville (the jump to Wellsburg is yet to come :D ).

 

Those are wonderful maps and the photos come through great. I have downloaded all eight. They don't fit my current quest but I believe KtSotR will be addressing that with some stuff from the 1926 PP-OO guide.

 

KtSotR: Until I get the time to pump stuff to it constantly, I have ample room on my server. I'd be happy to loan you a cup of disk space if desired.

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KtSotR: From your statement that the PP-OO is 47 on the map, I'm guessing that named auto trails are white on black (reinforced by the fact that 22 looks to be the NOTR). If correct then I'm bursting to know what named auto trail 36 is.

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KtSotR: From your statement that the PP-OO is 47 on the map, I'm guessing that named auto trails are white on black (reinforced by the fact that 22 looks to be the NOTR). If correct then I'm bursting to know what named auto trail 36 is.

 

OK Denny…your wish is my command! :lol::lol::lol:

 

Here are the Pikes Peak Ocean to Ocean pages for the 1926 road as per your request. If you can’t spot (and photograph, and post) at least a half dozen roadside artifacts matching these, you are in need of eye care!

 

Let me know how I might help further. Oh. I’ll look up 36 but I think that was Miss Canada…opps wrong forum. :rolleyes:

 

Oh, we have a limit of 15 photos in a post, so I have not shown each page. As you know, just click on the link for the image.

 

PPOOCover.jpg

 

PPOO35.jpg

 

PPOO36.jpg

 

PPOO37.jpg

 

PPOO38.jpg

 

PPOO39.jpg

 

PPOO40.jpg

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/PPOO41.jpg

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/PPOO42.jpg

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/PPOO43.jpg

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/PPOO44.jpg

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/PPOO45.jpg

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/PPOO46.jpg

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/PPOO47.jpg

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/PPOO48.jpg

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/PPOO49.jpg

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/PPOO50.jpg

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/PPOO51.jpg

 

http://www.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/PPOO52.jpg

 

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

 

 

KtSotR: From your statement that the PP-OO is 47 on the map, I'm guessing that named auto trails are white on black (reinforced by the fact that 22 looks to be the NOTR). If correct then I'm bursting to know what named auto trail 36 is.

 

Denny,

 

36 was called the Hub Highway (Black and White Marker). Never heard of it myself.

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

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Good grief, Keep, I must be getting hooked, because I want all of these resources you've posted.

 

It seems like the map and guide people had a hard time keeping up with the PP-OO.

 

But it also looks like the final PP-OO route pretty much follows the 1924 ABB route.

 

jim

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If you can’t spot (and photograph, and post) at least a half dozen roadside artifacts matching these, you are in need of eye care!
:lol: You've got that right. My eyes lit up when I saw the "pagoda" roofed Knupp's Auto in Greenville but I soon realized that the Annie Oakley Park sits there now. But there are lots of other things to look for and I've entered 444W into my cell phone in case I need "quick service" in Anderson, IN.

36 was called the Hub Highway (Black and White Marker). Never heard of it myself.
Dave Schul's very good (but not entirely current) website says it ran from Frankfort, OH, to Lafayette, IN. (http://www.marion.ohio-state.edu/fac/schul/trails/state/hub.html). I'll have to look into that.

 

Big thanks!!

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As the PP-OO enters Danville from the west, it went over a bridge as shown here:

 

http://www88.pair.com/davepaul/americanroad/PPOO47.jpg

 

The online map sites show that the road ends before the creek (or whatever) and picks up on the other side. Here's Windows Live Local.

 

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&amp..._&encType=1

 

But the aerial view shows a bridge going over the creek. I wonder if it's closed to traffic or something.

 

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&amp..._&encType=1

 

jim

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Good grief, Keep, I must be getting hooked, because I want all of these resources you've posted.

 

It seems like the map and guide people had a hard time keeping up with the PP-OO.

 

But it also looks like the final PP-OO route pretty much follows the 1924 ABB route.

 

jim

 

Jim,

 

I have been collecting for over 25 years so I have lots of stuff...but if you want to follow the old roads and enjoy the roadside architecture/ artifacts you can buy maybe ten items and have it all for your area. I would place the total cost under $300, perhaps much under.

 

Buy the following when you can

 

1916 - 1924 Automobile Blue Books of your area (Include one T or Transcontinental)

1920-24 Rand McNally Auto Trails maps of your area

1920-24 TIB National Edition (North or South)

1920-26 Hobbs Guides of the roads you are interested in (e.g. National Old Trails, National Road, Dixie Highway)

Maybe a 1925 -27 road atlas, and a 1939-49 road atlas

 

A guy could spend a fortune buying maps and guides, but that set will equip you about as well as any expert. I probably have a couple thousand items, and some might be better than any of the above for specific uses, but you will note that I seldom bother to go looking beyond the above.

 

I would have a modified list for say California (Drop TIB, add ACSC strip maps, etc) but it would look a lot the same.

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

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As the PP-OO enters Danville from the west, it went over a bridge...
When I encountered that last night while plotting with SA2008, I just assumed there was no bridge. I'm not very quick with the imagery stuff. The pictures are not nearly as sharp in Google Earth (which I do get to now and then) but no bridge is detectable. I'll let you know in a few weeks unless you or Pat get there first.

 

BTW, spot checks seem to indicate that the PP-OO finale did track with ABB 53 in Illinois as you suggested.

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Buy the following when you can

 

1916 - 1924 Automobile Blue Books of your area (Include one T or Transcontinental)

1920-24 Rand McNally Auto Trails maps of your area

1920-24 TIB National Edition (North or South)

1920-26 Hobbs Guides of the roads you are interested in (e.g. National Old Trails, National Road, Dixie Highway)

Maybe a 1925 -27 road atlas, and a 1939-49 road atlas

 

Now that is valuable advice! I've copied this list and will start looking for these resources. Having what I already have is vastly enriching my road trips, if nothing else because I'm so much more sure of where the roads used to go. And it's fascinating how they help me recognize old routes now that I never noticed before.

 

Driving south on US 31 from Westfield, at about 146th St. US 31 curves wide right and there's an exit to IN 431 that curves left. I work 2 miles south of there, and have driven through there hundreds of times since the early 1980s. They've even redesigned and rebuilt this "split" at least once during those years. But what I never noticed until recently was lonely old two-lane Rangeline Road, and how it actually continues straight south from the split. It gets lost in the shuffle. My 1924 ABB, along with one of the maps you posted for me some time ago, show the route to Indy coming south on what is now US 31 but entering Indy via the former towns (now neighborhoods) that are on ... Rangeline Road. And now, when I drive south on 31 through this split, I can't help but see Rangeline dead in front of me. I wonder what the area looked like when only Rangeline existed. I remember when this split was out in the middle of nowhere; today, it's retail strip mall city and a mess to drive through.

 

jim

 

 

When I encountered that last night while plotting with SA2008, I just assumed there was no bridge. I'm not very quick with the imagery stuff.

 

I'm curious about what the Windows Live Local imagery is showing me. I've seen the online maps show roads that don't exist, but so far in my usage when they say there's no road, they haven't been lying.

 

jim

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I believe I've plotted something pretty close to the 1926 PP-OO between Springfield, IL, and Greenville, OH. There are some roads missing or sliced through by interstate and there is some true weirdness in Anderson, IN, but I think it's usable. At least I intend to use it :) The forum doesn't allow uploading GPX files but I've posted my route at http://www.dennygibson.com/temp/maps_etc/ with the title "springfield2greenville.gpx" for any who would like to take a look. This file matches Delorme SA2008 maps. I've also found that I can bring the route into Garmin Map Source and manually tweak it to its maps. (Hopefully, this will give me a route that is completely accurate on the Garmin Quest GPS.) That route is posted as "Gspringfield2greenville.gpx".

 

Visiting Anderson should be interesting. Apparently, the route changed there between 1925 and 1926, the 1925 guide has the town detail's north marking reversed, and there may now be some one way streets or closures involved. I base that last comment on the fact that I can't get what I think is the right path to route with MapSource and its behavior strikes me as avoiding some east-west streets (10th, 11th, 12, 13th) is some directions on some blocks. Curiously, it does route with DeLorme so MapSource could just have bad data. That's something all maps have.

 

I believe that the 1926 PP-OO Guide that KtSotR has shared is the last one published but who knows. The PP-OO secretary may have penciled in a bunch of changes just before they shut down the office. :D

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I believe that the 1926 PP-OO Guide that KtSotR has shared is the last one published but who knows. The PP-OO secretary may have penciled in a bunch of changes just before they shut down the office. :D

 

DennyG,

 

I am 95% sure there was a 1927 published.

 

Keep the Show on the Road

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I am 95% sure there was a 1927 published.
I didn't know that. With nothing to support it, I had thought the PP-OO disbanded with the advent of the US Highways.

 

I'm guessing it was just to get those last penciled changes published and that there is a copy hidden somewhere in Anderson, Indiana. :lol:

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I didn't know that. With nothing to support it, I had thought the PP-OO disbanded with the advent of the US Highways.

 

I'm guessing it was just to get those last penciled changes published and that there is a copy hidden somewhere in Anderson, Indiana. :lol:

 

Denny,

 

I must be wrong. I thought I saw a 1927 on the web but the one I was thinking of is a 1926. So I throw my limited knowledge in, and declare you right in the first place. Sorry that my memory was wrong, but I'm glad I left myself 5% wiggle room!!! :blink:

 

Keep the Show on the Road!!!

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The federal Highway site does show a Rand McNally PP-OO map they identify as 1927 ( http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/pikes02.htm ). It isn't an "offical" guide, of course, and only shows the high level city-to-city routings.

 

As map collecting has become a bit of a sub-topic here, I'm curious about the wheres & hows of finding auto trail period maps. I occasionally visit eBay and once in a great while do a general web search but you serious collectors must have better sources.

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