Old Maps

[Starfire]

Just a little update for my buying activity since this post originally appeared.

 

I've bought the following from ebay:

 

AAA Tour books - 1935, 1937 and 1939. All Southeaster editions (took me a while to find these);

Automobile Blue Books - Vol. 2 - 1923 (Middle Atlantic and Southern);

- Vol. 1 - 1923 (Northeast US and eastern Canada);

- Vol. 2 - 1926 (Middle Atlantic and Southern)

 

I don't remember what I paid for all of these over the past year, but it was under $50. In good condition, no, but I'm not into condition. For me these are to be used and abused until they fall apart. If they weren't so many pages I'd be scanning them into my computer.

 

This brings my small collection up to the 1918-1941 period - I have a 1918 Goodrich tour guide for Northern New England all the way up to the 1941 AAA books - 1 for the Northeast and 1 that covers the western states from the Mississippi to the west coast.

 

I find a lot of these simply by going to ebay several times a week and typing in Automobile Blue Book, or AAA tour book (unless you're into a particular era, like 1920's AAA tour books) - there are a lot of 1960 up tour books on ebay.) Watch the price - if it stays under $10 I'll bid on it. If it attracts a number of bidders, ok, I'll try again another day.

 

Hudsonly,

Alex Burr

Memphis, TN

 

eBay has made it a lot easier to be a collector of just about everything. Almost makes flea markets and swap meets totally obsolete. I know it has certainly made the business of finding parts to restore vintage automobiles much easier.

 

Jim

 

[Keep the Show on the Road!]

Jim,

 

I love it! Great stuff! Following old alignments gets into the blood! I have spent days, and sometimes years (intermittently) trying to decipher an old routing. US 90 sounds like a great subject in your area.

 

At the risk of oversimplifying what I understand from what you wrote, the OST was inconsistently defined, and the later US90 didn’t necessarily conform to it, even though it does on some maps. Did the OST publish an official Route guide at any point in its history? I don’t recall seeing one.

 

I have noted that the Automobile Blue Books around 1924 often identify a given road section as part of this or that auto trail. Have you by chance compared their route descriptions from that period with your knowledge of the actual routing of the OST?

 

I ask because we discussed here a few weeks ago that the Hobbs Guides for the Dixie Highway did not always follow the exact route, perhaps preferring to describe a superior road segment (or perhaps one that provided more ad revenue). I wonder how much confidence can be placed on the ABB identification. Any insights?

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

 

Dave

[Starfire]

Jim,

 

I love it! Great stuff! Following old alignments gets into the blood! I have spend days, and sometimes years (intermittently) trying to decipher an old routing. US 90 sounds like a great subject in your area.

 

At the risk of oversimplifying what I understand from what you wrote, the OST was inconsistently defined, and the later US90 didn’t necessarily conform to it, even though it does on some maps. Did the OST publish an official Route guide at any point in its history? I don’t recall seeing one.

 

I have noted that the Automobile Blue Books around 1924 often identify a given road section as part of this or that auto trail. Have you by chance compared their route descriptions from that period with your knowledge of the actual routing of the OST?

 

I ask because we discussed here a few weeks ago that the Hobbs Guides for the Dixie Highway did not always follow the exact route, perhaps preferring to describe a superior road segment (or perhaps one that provided more ad revenue). I wonder how much confidence can be placed on the ABB identification. Any insights?

 

Keep the Show on the Road!

 

Dave

 

 

Dave,

 

To the best of my knowledge there was only one map of the OST created by the original OST Association. You can find images of it on three web sites. One is drivetheost.com, another is oldspanishtrailcentennial.com, the third is a site at St. Mary's University in San Antonio, which is a repository along with the University of Texas for much of the history of the OST. The St. Mary's site can be accessed from the centennial site links.

 

The last partial official guide to the OST was published by the Association in 1929 if memory serves me correctly and it displays the original mapping of the OST. To answer your question the route of the OST was agreed to by association members prior to the passage of the Federal Highway Act of 1926. Unlike the people pushing Route 66 there doesn't seem to have been any truly successful effort on the part of the OST Association to establish a working relationship with the Federal Government following the passage of the Federal Highway Act of 1926. While the designation of various portions of the OST as U.S. 90 were made subsequent to the passage of the act not all of what was designated under the act as U.S. 90 followed the OST map. At least that is the way it was in Texas.

 

Hopefully that explanation will be a bit clearer than mud.....

 

Jim

Edited April 7, 2008 by Starfire

[mobilene]

Being a bit of a nut case when it comes to looking for old alignments of roads <...>

 

Oh lordy are you ever in good company here.

 

I've been to Texas a number of times -- a couple times on business to Dallas, once to visit ex-family in San Antonio, and thrice I've been all the way through Texas on a school bus to do mission work in Piedras Negras, Mexico, just across from Eagle Pass. Until the Piedras Negras trips, I thought Texas was all Interstates and frontage roads. But south of San Antonio a bit the major highways start to thin out into endless miles of two-lane ribbon. It's made me wonder about Texas before freeways and now your US 90 / OST stories are making me itch to hightail it to Texas and see what's what. Unfortunately, it's a dang long drive from Indiana, so today isn't the day.

 

Peace,

jim

 

[Starfire]

Oh lordy are you ever in good company here.

 

I've been to Texas a number of times -- a couple times on business to Dallas, once to visit ex-family in San Antonio, and thrice I've been all the way through Texas on a school bus to do mission work in Piedras Negras, Mexico, just across from Eagle Pass. Until the Piedras Negras trips, I thought Texas was all Interstates and frontage roads. But south of San Antonio a bit the major highways start to thin out into endless miles of two-lane ribbon. It's made me wonder about Texas before freeways and now your US 90 / OST stories are making me itch to hightail it to Texas and see what's what. Unfortunately, it's a dang long drive from Indiana, so today isn't the day.

 

Peace,

jim

 

Jim,

 

Well come on, Texas awaits........

 

But I do understand the problem of distance, and certainly these days the cost of going very far without a bank loan to buy gasoline. Too many interesting two lane highways, too little time!

 

I'll taunt you, and maybe everyone else, a bit with a clue about a little mentioned two lane highway. U.S. 287 which starts more or less at Port Arthur, Texas (Beaumont) runs a bit of a North, Northwest diagonal across Texas and through the Texas Panhandle on its way to its terminus at Yellowstone park. U.S. 287 may be the last, certainly one of the last, 2 lane highways to have an organized tourist promotional association, which existed into the early 1970s. Somewhere I think I still have a wooden nickel from that association which was good for a cup of coffee at any association member eatery along 287's entire length.

 

Closer to you is an interesting 2 lane highway in the form of U.S. 67. U.S. 67 which runs from Davenport, Iowa Southward through St. Louis, Little Rock, Texarkana, Dallas, and on to it's Southern terminus at Presidio, Texas on the Mexican border. Unfortunately much of U.S. 67's alignment through Missouri, Arkansas, and even Northern Texas became I-30.

[Keep the Show on the Road!]

Oh lordy are you ever in good company here.

 

Peace,

jim

 

Starfire,

 

I second Mobilene's comment!

 

I want to pull out the ole' guides and maps and start looking at the OST in your neck of the woods right now, but I am trying to finalize my route through Wyoming for the Hypotenuse Trail trip next week.

 

There are a few descriptions in the 1929 Hobbs I have at hand that intrigue me, and might be close to your home base. The mileages are from the 1929 Post Office in San Antonio

 

44.9 Wolf ; Small Store only, gas

51.9 Gas at small store on hill

55.8 Belmont; a settlement; gas at small garage

62.9 Gas at repair shop

67.3 Gas and camp at store

69,5 Gonzales county camp, 25 cents, in fine oak grove.

 

Sounds like very rural countryside with small hamlets along the way. And oak groves! Sounds downright bucolic. I suppose it is the same today!!!

 

(After making that tongue in cheek comment, I cranked up Google Earth, and looked. Maybe it really is still a lot like it was in 1929. If so, all I can say, is you lucky son of a gun!)

 

Gonzales is described as the “Lexington of Texas.” Where the first shots were fired for Texas independence. Is there anything left of the Hotel Alcalde “best with 40 rooms. Half with bath”?

 

I hope the Texas OST topic is still warm when I get back!!

 

Oh, BTW, I suppose you know American Road runs a regular feature on the OST.

[mobilene]

Closer to you is an interesting 2 lane highway in the form of U.S. 67. U.S. 67 which runs from Davenport, Iowa Southward through St. Louis, Little Rock, Texarkana, Dallas, and on to it's Southern terminus at Presidio, Texas on the Mexican border. Unfortunately much of U.S. 67's alignment through Missouri, Arkansas, and even Northern Texas became I-30.

 

Well hell's bells. I fired up Google Maps at Presidio, and right there north of town are what look like two former alignments, one of them looking to be partially abandoned. Then about 65 miles away I think I see two more east of Marfa. One thing guaranteed to make me smile is to come upon an abandoned road.

 

Oh, yes, I-30. My ex-wife picked up a speeding ticket on I-30 on the Arkansas side of Texarkana ten years ago when we were on our way to San Antonio. Her usual bat-the-eyelashes trick didn't faze the revenue-enhancement agent.

 

jim

[Starfire]

Starfire,

 

I second Mobilene's comment!

 

I want to pull out the ole' guides and maps and start looking at the OST in your neck of the woods right now, but I am trying to finalize my route through Wyoming for the Hypotenuse Trail trip next week.

 

There are a few descriptions in the 1929 Hobbs I have at hand that intrigue me, and might be close to your home base. The mileages are from the 1929 Post Office in San Antonio

 

44.9 Wolf ; Small Store only, gas

51.9 Gas at small store on hill

55.8 Belmont; a settlement; gas at small garage

62.9 Gas at repair shop

67.3 Gas and camp at store

69,5 Gonzales county camp, 25 cents, in fine oak grove.

 

Sounds like very rural countryside with small hamlets along the way. And oak groves! Sounds downright bucolic. I suppose it is the same today!!!

 

(After making that tongue in cheek comment, I cranked up Google Earth, and looked. Maybe it really is still a lot like it was in 1929. If so, all I can say, is you lucky son of a gun!)

 

Gonzales is described as the “Lexington of Texas.” Where the first shots were fired for Texas independence. Is there anything left of the Hotel Alcalde “best with 40 rooms. Half with bath”?

 

I hope the Texas OST topic is still warm when I get back!!

 

Oh, BTW, I suppose you know American Road runs a regular feature on the OST.

 

In spite of the fact parts of Texas have become highly populated since the end of WW II, much of Texas is pretty much as it was 80 years ago with the exception of Interstate Highways having replaced many of the old 2 lane highways. At the time the OST was in the planning stages the entire population of the State was little more than half the current population of metropolitan Houston or metropolitan Dallas/Ft.Worth. Even though I'm physically located more or less midway between San Antonio and Houston little has changed around here during the passage of those 80 years. That's one of the reasons we are here after over forty years of Dallas and Houston. To give an idea of how little things have changed, it is not at all uncommon to see guys in local restaurants wearing spurs, though they may have arrived from the ranch in a new F250 pickup. We're so unchanged out here we still have mountain lions (cougars) roaming the area along with the deer, wild hogs, coyotes, and a wolf or two from time to time. If going to the more remote areas of our property, I always wear a side arm and probably have a rifle in my truck. Nope things haven't changed much over the last 80 years around here.

 

Yes the Hotel Alcalde is still alive and very well in Gonzales. As somewhat historic hotels go, it might be considered a bit of a Johnny come lately in comparison with a number of other yet operating hotels to be found in Texas. The Alcalde was built in either 1925 or 1926. The oldest continuously operating hotel in the State of Texas is the Stage Coach Inn in Salado (just a bit South of Temple) which dates back to pre Civil War days. The site of the home of the OST in San Antonio has actually had an operating hotel since the 1840s, but the original was replaced by the current occupant the Gunter Hotel circa 1860, and is now owned operated by the Sheraton chain. Two of the most grand and elegant of old hotels are San Antonio's St. Anthony and Austin's Driskill, both more than worth a visit.

 

Jim

 

 

[rudkipon66]

I gotta join the chorus for shopping on EBay...I know I got a 1932 or so AAA California map and picked some SoCal Automobile Assn maps off there...I collect Official Mo, IL and Wi maps, and I would say most have come off of Ebay...I sense that the Official State Highway Maps tend to auction off for more than Gas Station maps...AAA tend to be somewhere in the middle. I have visited a lot of antique malls, an dhave found a few maps I was looking for, but I would not rely on them as a source; you will find something you are looking for once in awhile, but will spend a lot of time walking aisles looking at booth after booth full of someones china. Slan go foill, Kip