sit properly Posted September 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 I'm not really sure where to add this since it's not YT, but within this thread, we talked about Index, WA. I can't find the original thread where I stated my surprise that the Cascade Highway never ventured into Index. And it's true that from very early on, Index was bi-passed. Dave mentioned somewhere (possibly in an email to me) that he found a map that showed Index being a town along the Cascade Highway. According to googlemaps, Gold Bar - Index Road stops at the RR tracks (when leaving Index, heading east). There seems to be no mythical "northwest passage" that connects Index to Gold Bar. My theory was that either it was a long, long ago abandoned road, now destroyed by whatever destroys these roads or that it never existed. However, yesterday I was very happily proven wrong. We started in Gold Bar on US 2 heading east. About a mile from that little town, we take a left on Reiter RD. This, according to one theory, is the old alignment of the Cascade Highway. We followed this beautiful little road along a very high and scary "cliff" and around hair pin turns, through park land until we were right up against the BNSF rail lines. I was sort of surprised that it lasted this long. And then we crossed the tracks! I was way too excited about this. We then drove on the Gold Bar - Index RD (still called Reiter RD, I think) into the amazingly little town of Index! It may seem like a small thing or like nothing at all, but I was stoked. Big time. For one, I love proving Googlemaps wrong. Love it. And for another, I found an fairly well maintained (paved!) old alignment of the Cascade Highway! I'm clearly not the first person to drive on this, but I bet I was the most excited. You can see the pics of that and more of our day trip here. My next job is to find out if Mt. Index River Road was an old alignment. I believe it was. Also, NDF 6031, just east of Baring (which is east of Index) - also called Lowes Creek RD at some point - may have been a old, old alignment, bi-passing Grotto. It's marked as such and just might be. My job is to find out if it's passable. -eric ps - I'm back in the saddle after a nasty injury at work that nixed my entire summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobilene Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Great photoset, and great sleuthing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep the Show on the Road! Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Dave mentioned somewhere (possibly in an email to me) that he found a map that showed Index being a town along the Cascade Highway. /quote] Eric, Good to see you “back in the saddle!” I had the impression that you had gone east for the summer, and had thus “lost touch” with this gang temporarily. I was looking forward to your return so we could talk Northwestern roads…and now it seems you were here all along! One of the comments I made, that you may be recalling, is that the later version of the National Parks Highway went through Index vs. over Snoqualmie Pass. Now that you are back here, we need to pick up on the NPH. I was thrown out of commission in May by a bundle of “life crises” which have now largely passed (daughter lost a leg, son injured in the Army, mother died….and I ran out of beer!) I’m thinking Sheila and I may head out on the National Parks Highway Monday for a short trip, maybe as far as Glacier NP. I bought a used convertible (an old man’s “scooter”) to enhance what’s left of the good weather. I recall ten or twenty years ago taking a road west out of Index, but I don’t remember how far we went. Bing shows the road as continuous between Gold Bar and Index while both Delorme and Google show a break or two. Are you saying that it is paved all the way between Gold Bar and Index? Did you have to detour? Dave Keep the Show on the Road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep the Show on the Road! Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 Eric, is a quick video that confirms your assessment, and extends it eastward. Dave Keep the Show on the Road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sit properly Posted September 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 YES! It's true. It's all paved. Not even crappy gravel. It's paved. There are crews working on it, putting in new guard rails (so be careful for them, of course). Not only is this road still drivable, it's still be serviced. I would assume the biggest use of it is camping just north of Index. I have a theory that someone brought up before. At first I thought it was bunk, but then I wasn't sure. And just now I watched your video and I'm probably wrong, but it's still a nifty notion. Heading east out of Index, was Index Mountain Road used? Dave's map is from 1921, so any use is REALLY early, if at all. I made a map... We shall see. My next theory (about the alignment bi-passing Grotto) is here, on Googlemaps. The more southeasterly part, which connects to US 2 just east of Grotto, continuing down through and past Skykomish is definitely Old Cascade Highway. No doubt there. But heading west from Miller River on NDF 6031... Was this ever an old alignment? It follows the terrain, for sure. It does make a bit of sense. Though, how it reconnects to US 2 is a big mystery. Maybe there was an old bridge somewhere. Or maybe the road that became US 2 was there and continued to Grotto, but to go past Grotto, you'd have to use NDF 6031. An old map might shed some light on this since both the river and the railroad would help to solve the question. I was here all summer, but it wasn't a happy summer. Mostly just injured and unable to ride. I'm working five days a week now on light duty and it's driving me crazy. Next week or the next I'll try to get out on the road again. The Cascade Highway is really calling me now. I'm ready to roll! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobilene Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 I am following all of this with great interest, mouth watering, wishing this road weren't 2,000 miles away! jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep the Show on the Road! Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 Eric, I haven’t studied your route with great care yet, but I think there is some support for it on the 1902 USGS map available on Google Earth as an overlay. It appears that before there was a road over the pass there was a trail on the south side of the river (as your route goes). It is certainly reasonable to think that the trail may have become the original road. If you are not familiar with the marvelous historical USGS map overlays available on Google Earth, let me know. If you are familiar with the maps, use the Skykomish USGS map. It gets really interesting further east nearer the tunnel. Dave Keep the Show on the Road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sit properly Posted September 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 I've just downloaded googleearth, but I don't know about the overlays. Sounds fairly amazing and would like to be in the know. Hook me up, if you can. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep the Show on the Road! Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 I've just downloaded googleearth, but I don't know about the overlays. Sounds fairly amazing and would like to be in the know. Hook me up, if you can. Thanks! Eric, Matt Fox at mattfox@starstream.net is the guy to contact, but try this link first. http://www.gelib.com/historic-topographic-maps.html Matt has done wonderful things on Google Earth, and I have not fully acknowledged his efforts, so I donated a few bucks to his work today. By the way, if you have not done so already, don’t update to Google Earth 5.1. (I’m using 5.0) Matt reported a problem on 9/10/2009 that may prevent loading the topos. That would be a terrible loss. Another great resource for topo overlays, in this case modern ones, is www.3dsolar.com. Dave Keep the Show on the Road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sit properly Posted September 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Well fun! I just did that, and looked around the Skykomish area. There's no road or trail or anything on the norther side of the river (where US 2 is now). Very interesting. I'm going to take a look at the Index area map too. 1902 is really early though. This is prehistoric! The processor on my laptop is very slow, so I'll have to try this on my more powerful desktop. This is a really impressive tool. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep the Show on the Road! Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Well fun! I just did that, and looked around the Skykomish area. There's no road or trail or anything on the norther side of the river (where US 2 is now). Very interesting. I'm going to take a look at the Index area map too. 1902 is really early though. This is prehistoric! The processor on my laptop is very slow, so I'll have to try this on my more powerful desktop. This is a really impressive tool. Thanks! Eric, Yes, it is a great tool. Glad it’s working for you! The old USGS maps are often the only source for the details of old auto road alignments in the west. (The east was better mapped in the early days of autos.) I bet you will find more in the 1902 map than you expect. It is a bit early, but it is likely that the original auto road largely followed the routes that existed in 1902. It looks like you are headed toward becoming the state expert on the Stevens Pass route. Mobilene “owns” the Michigan Road, and if you stay with it, the Cascades Highway will be yours. Looking forward to your discoveries! BTW, why don't you start a new thread on the route in Auto Trails. Dave Keep the Show on the Road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep the Show on the Road! Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Eric, Looking forward to your discoveries! BTW, why don't you start a new thread on the route in Auto Trails. Dave Keep the Show on the Road! Eric, Your interest in the Stevens Pass route prompted me to pull out the 1915 and 1919 Automobile Blue Books for the Northwest. I was surprised that the road wasn’t completed by 1919. The proposed route east of Index was mapped in the 1915 ABB, but the 1919 ABB said it may be completed in 1919. The route between Everett and Index is described in both, but not beyond Index. If you decide to start a new thread, and if you want to see the maps and such, I’ll post them in the new thread. I’ll also pull a later ABB where the route is shown and post it. Dave Keep the Show on the Road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennyG Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 ps - I'm back in the saddle after a nasty injury at work that nixed my entire summer. I'm following the discussion as best I can although I certainly can't add to it. My purpose is simply to welcome you back to both saddle and forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sit properly Posted September 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 (edited) Thank you, Denny. It's good to be back. I wish that I could add more. Dave, I want to explore this route and that it's so close to Seattle, it makes it quite easy. I'm going to try to trace the 1902 route as closely as possible and take it from there. I keep getting this route confused with YT, especially when it comes to dates completed over their respective passes. I actually thought the Stevens Pass Route was opened a bit later than that. I'm going to have to see how far east the 1902 route went. That wasn't an auto road. Then I'll check the 1915 and 1919 to see how it was doing then. It's a short route, so it should be pretty simple. As for starting a new thread, I think I'll do that, starting off with my latest trip pictures/map and maybe a few other odds and ends. Would be fun. It's late in the season, I don't have too much time before the piles of snow start falling up there. Edited September 18, 2009 by sit properly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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